To think "gentle parents" are setting their kids up for a lifetime of friendlessness and struggling to hold down a job?

[ForestGoblin]

You get one chance to build the neural pathways that guide you for the rest of your life and if you don't learn that you're not the centre of anyone else's universe as a young kid you never will.

I don't think you understand what gentle parenting is at all. It still involves 'no' and firm boundaries, but done in a way that treats the child with respect. Look at 'big little feelings' on Instagram if you want to educate yourself.

Agree with you completely

I think someone should re-name gentle parenting because it always seems to cause a lot of confusion.

I have read the thread and understand the thread thank you. Gentle parenting isn't about treating a child like an equal it's about treating them with the respect your afford any other human being - but in an age appropriate manner.

Children like choice, if the choice is between 2 things you are happy with being the outcome botj parties are happy. If the choice is all about one person not the other the power dynamic shifts, one party feels aggrieved and digs their heels in.

Put your shoes on
No
Where do you go from here?

Shoes on time, am I helping you today or are you being a big girl and putting them on yourself?
Don't want shoes on
Ok well we are going out, you'll just get wet/cold/sore feet then, come on.
No
Come on then sit down and we'll do it together

What has this got to do with middle class people? Why is MN so classist?

Yeh I get it . I don’t need you to mansplain it to me.
I’ve read all the books, I try to follow this advice. Sometimes it works, sometimes it works up to a point, sometimes it doesn’t work.
My DD like choices, yes, but she’s not always that dumb or easy to manipulate. Sometimes she just doesn’t want to put on her shoes. So what then? I put on her shoes whether she likes it or not. I have friends who follow the gentle parenting approach who would never do that . if child refuses buggy , they can’t go anywhere (or leave where they came from!). Said yes to a party? Sure but child would rather stay home and watch tv. So it is. Of course they’ve read the books and try offering choices. Child still refuses

Are you always so abrasive?

Skinthin
Even on the shoe thing I think it's context dependent, which includes the child's age.

I'm not a huge Sarah Ockwell-Smith fan, and find it a bit middle class yummy mummy at times, but the one thing I took from a range of authoritative parenting resources was about being mindful over choosing boundaries and when to drop the rope.

I find it bizarre that an adult would get into a power struggle with a 2 year old over shoes, for example. If mine took their shoes off in the car and we were going to the doctor, I'd just lift them out the car and go to the appointment. No attention given to the behaviour, no drama, no need for conflict. I never felt the need to "win" or show them who's boss, which comes from a place of fear eg if I don't get into this unnecessary battle now I might have an 8 year old who is feral and won't wear shoes.

I struggle to put myself in the shoes of an adult who would pick a fight with a 2 year old over things that don't matter.

Once the adult gets themselves into the conflict it often becomes a power struggle and the adult is left either having to back down (which is sometimes needed because we can all be unreasonable at times) or it becomes a silly battle of wills over nothing so the parent can feel they've won. Too much backing down ends up being permissive because the child doesn't learn that there are consistent boundaries and the adult is more likely to keep letting everything drop for ease.

If they're 5 and we're walking to the hairdresser's then shoes aren't negotiable. They're a safety situation. They'd be free to choose which pair of shoes they wear, but shoes aren't negotiable. If they can't make the choice, I make the choice, hold the boundary and move on.

No . I’m just on my way to work , pregnant with two toddlers and feeling impatient with the typical demonstration of sanctimony that appears on these threads.

Tbh i agree with all of this; and my children very often walk around with no shoes on to the point where I have sometimes been told off. But sometimes shoes are necessary and so they go on. Similarly sometimes baby needs to get in buggy and so she goes in whether through force or otherwise.
I wholeheartedly agree that picking battles just to “win” and demonstrate authority is f’ed up. I was parented like that and it’s toxic.

I can't stand Sarah Ockwell-smith or her followers! I remember one telling me I should be reported for child neglect for sleep training DS1 at 4-5 months!
We didn't do CIO but the stay and support method and regular routine as I was told by my Dr I was so sleep deprived I was borderline on dangerous..... but no apparently me not being dangerous in charge of a baby (I couldn't remember doing basic tasks, getting places etc) wasn't the important factor and I was cruel!

We don't shout at our children unless a potential dangerous scenario such as no running too far ahead etc and we do explain things to them. But eldest DS does know consequences and will get told off if required and asked not to do things. Will be given 2 warnings for most things (hitting nope that's straight away being told off) and we will explain why he is being disciplined calmly to him if he breaks that.

We have been told at preschool he's polite, well behaved, has good manners and listens when asked. He runs around, plays and explores with the rest of them.
My friend who gentle parents child has received 6 behavioural slips in 3 months including for bullying behaviour (same age no other issues etc).

Sadly parenting brings out sanctimonious arseholes no matter what style of parenting you follow. I've been a parent for 20 years and these same arguments have been had for every single one of those years!

I don't understand why parenting is seen as being so competitive.

If it’s anything like restorative practice which I had to apply to bickering 5 year olds in the playground, it’s a load of old pony. Was also moaned at by a member of SLT observing my class for asking a child not to scrape their chair loudly across the floor and leave it sitting in the middle of the room, blocking everyone’s path. Apparently I had to say “what could you have done differently?” In a patronising sing song tone. Upon trying this tactic I got blank looks from the children who had no idea what I was asking/telling them. It took up a huge amount of valuable teaching and learning time too.

What’s wrong with being straightforward and giving clear instructions and boundaries? Children just seem to be totally confused by these convoluted ways of trying to communicate a very simple message.

I've witnessed a baby nearly choke to death on BLW, I detest it.

I don't know much about gentle parenting, but I think the phrase is self righteous and nauseating.

If it’s anything like restorative practice which I had to apply to bickering 5 year olds in the playground, it’s a load of old pony. Was also moaned at by a member of SLT observing my class for asking a child not to scrape their chair loudly across the floor and leave it sitting in the middle of the room, blocking everyone’s path. Apparently I had to say “what could you have done differently?” In a patronising sing song tone. Upon trying this tactic I got blank looks from the children who had no idea what I was asking/telling them. It took up a huge amount of valuable teaching and learning time too.
It's a bit like restorative practice in that if the principles are properly applied then it can be effective, but in reality some people misapply it and then a weird permissive version ends up happening.

The main problem I've found with restorative practice in mainstream schools is that it's very rarely done properly. It's often used by SLT who don't want to deal with behaviour and who are worryingly keen to keep framing behaviour issues as a teacher problem or a personality clash or other garbage. What these SLT propose isn't actually restorative practice. It's usually a terrible and inconsistent approach to whole school behaviour because someone has cherry picked parts of a Paul Dix book and needs an NPQ project.

I've worked with pastoral staff who were exceptional and they used restorative part appropriately in appropriate situations. Restorative practice isn't a load of rubbish. Like any professional approach it requires time, effort and appropriate knowledge to do properly.

The key issue is time, no time to teach/model it correctly and applying it in a class of 33, several with SEN and English as an additional language. So the version we were saddled with was most definitely a load of rubbish.

👍🏻❤️ so true

The key issue is time, no time to teach/model it correctly and applying it in a class of 33, several with SEN and English as an additional language. So the version we were saddled with was most definitely a load of rubbish
I completely agree with you.
I'd run a mile from any school that had RP as their central behaviour model. It's unfair on staff and unfair on pupils.

Restorative practice to get to the bottom of a professional relationship between teacher and student has broken down, where the people facilitating are properly trained and good at their job - fine it can be good.
RP by pastoral staff to resolve peer friendship issues, applied properly with appropriate time - great

RP as a default setting where Timmy gets to disrupt the lesson, SLT take him for a hot chocolate and then he gets to tell Mrs Smith what she did wrong that caused him to ruin the lesson for 29 others - not ok
RP as a default setting by idiots who think it's acceptable to sit a bully with their victim, centre the bully's feelings and let the bully explain to the victim why the bully is actually the real victim and couldn't help it - totally unacceptable and entrenches DARVO

I've seen all of those in different settings.

I have 4 children and my experience disagrees with you.

There is no such thing as showing too much love or support. Your kids will turn out more resilient and well adjusted than a parent who tries to teach them a lesson.

Mindsets like this rely on every person’s ‘core’ being absolutely pure and free from any negative intentions. If we just ‘support’ people enough, they’ll do XYZ, because ultimately everyone is good and kind inside and we just need to unlock it.

I completely disagree with that. Human nature is fundamentally flawed and life is, too. There is no bottomless well of support for kids outside of a willing parent, and one day that parent will probably die… then what happens to the 35 year old whose parents have been paying for him to sit in his pants gaming with no job because ‘kicking him out is too mean’?

What we do when we raise children is we teach them to be adults, in an age appropriate way. Teaching them that whatever they do they will be met with love and understanding and support is setting them up to fail. Because they won’t encounter this when they get sacked, if they end up in court, if they get arrested or don’t pay their bills. And why should they? They’ll be grown ass adults. Why should other people ‘support’ them then?

There's a vast difference between "gentle parenting" and "letting the little buggers do whatever they like."

Many parents who are the latter, THINK they are the former, but are delusional and in for a shock.

Fortunately, most kids of those parents, after a year in Reception, get a firm dose of reality and turn out okay in the end.

@Carpediemmakeitcount I'm not really sure what you're disagreeing with! Treating your child with respect and having boundaries?

Outside influences will make you child act differently. When they are little it works then because your child is dependent on you. When puberty hits that's when it all changes and emotions run wild especially with girls. Sometimes you have to put them in their place and steer them in the right direction.

Which is why it's important to lay the foundations when they're small. It gives the teenagers a secure framework to bounce around and while they find their feet .

If you empower your child to have the confidence to stand up to their peers through giving them self confidence and understanding of how the world works and how they themself work wouldn't you do it?