Page 11 | To think "gentle parents" are setting their kids up for a lifetime of friendlessness and struggling to hold down a job?

ForestGoblin · 2023-08-13T13:47:44+00:00

You get one chance to build the neural pathways that guide you for the rest of your life and if you don't learn that you're not the centre of anyone else's universe as a young kid you never will.

Yellowlegobrick · 13/08/2023 19:25

First school or forest school?

Forest school = a nice woodland activity for kids. Its not a replacement for an educational setting. There are lots of things children gain from a variety of settings, trees and a lack of tables is no more special than any other.

Confusinglyconfused · 13/08/2023 19:25

Yellowlegobrick · 13/08/2023 19:23

Dinodough

Alas, 4 teachers in my family who've all said they are increasingly struggling with poor behaviour. Children who don't expect to obey without an explanation, who don't stick at things they don't like doing, who don't take being told "no" well. My sister was tearing her hair out at her primary class last year, there's no time to talk things out because a child is sad that they don't want to do their maths when there are 30 in a class.

Talking out only happens after they've calmed down.

Doesn't want to do maths - tough you're doing maths because the class is doing maths, everyone is doing maths - but I don't want to - we are doing maths - escalates behaviour - enforces boundary - kicks off - removed from situation - kid calms down - discussion follows - kid learns

Anotherchristianmama · 13/08/2023 19:25

Yellowlegobrick · 13/08/2023 19:23

Dinodough

Alas, 4 teachers in my family who've all said they are increasingly struggling with poor behaviour. Children who don't expect to obey without an explanation, who don't stick at things they don't like doing, who don't take being told "no" well. My sister was tearing her hair out at her primary class last year, there's no time to talk things out because a child is sad that they don't want to do their maths when there are 30 in a class.

That's a problem with the structure of the education system not with parenting.

DinoDough · 13/08/2023 19:25

Yellowlegobrick · 13/08/2023 19:23

Dinodough

Alas, 4 teachers in my family who've all said they are increasingly struggling with poor behaviour. Children who don't expect to obey without an explanation, who don't stick at things they don't like doing, who don't take being told "no" well. My sister was tearing her hair out at her primary class last year, there's no time to talk things out because a child is sad that they don't want to do their maths when there are 30 in a class.

That’s really sad to hear. It’s so different to what I’m hearing, that’s why I always struggle when I read it on here. I do believe you though, it’s just disappointing.

Ridemeginger · 13/08/2023 19:31

Confusinglyconfused · 13/08/2023 19:25

Talking out only happens after they've calmed down.

Doesn't want to do maths - tough you're doing maths because the class is doing maths, everyone is doing maths - but I don't want to - we are doing maths - escalates behaviour - enforces boundary - kicks off - removed from situation - kid calms down - discussion follows - kid learns

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How long does that take, and what are the other 29 kids doing while the teacher is having to negotiate with this child? Does anyone get to do any maths?

Feetupteashot · 13/08/2023 19:31

@GenieGenealogy er no

Cabotchat · 13/08/2023 19:31

Yellowlegobrick · 13/08/2023 18:33

Gentle parenting doesn't prepare children well for being educated/spending time socially in larger groups with less focussed adult direction. In particular it doesnt prepare them for the fact that:

most adults and other children are not infinitely patient
sometimes in life they will be made to do things that are hard that they do not want to do and no distraction, praise etc will be given, yet they will expected to do it anyway.
they will often be expected to comply with adults instructions, quickly and without question, and will not be told why or given explanations, because there is not time or simply because the adult does not think the child needs to know
not all of their needs are wants, and they will often have unmet wants, and most people around them will not go out of the way to fulfill their wants, even if they are reasonable/age appropriate.
adults have emotions, and it is ok for them to show anger, frustration and disappointment in reasonable ways when a child's behaviour does not comply with societal expectations, and people often will.
many consequences in life for bad behaviour will be strong/upsetting - loss of privileges, loss of possessions etc, and will not be limited to "natural" consequences.

The world is harsh and unfair, so parenting should be as well?

ShiteRider · 13/08/2023 19:31

PlanetJanette · 13/08/2023 19:19

I swear the regular ‘let me demonstrate that I don’t understand gentle parenting’ threads come around earlier each year.

Things gentle parenting is not:
-giving your child everything they ask for;
-no boundaries;
-no consequences;
-never expressing anger or frustration;
-allowing your child to behave however they please.

Things gentle parenting is:
-relying on actual reasons and logic for boundaries rather than just making it up as you go along;
-explaining what the boundaries are and why they exist;
-applying natural and logical consequences when boundaries are broken;
-recognising that a child - and a parent - has emotions, helping them to recognise them, and talking through acceptable and unacceptable ways of showing those emotions;
-recognising that your child can see when you get things wrong, and are as entitled to an apology as any adult would be if you mess up.

What you’re describing as gentle parenting is just parenting. It doesn’t need a name. It’s not special. Or am I missing something?

MeadAndPie · 13/08/2023 19:35

I don't get the issue with forest school - I did some sessions with my toddler and older kids in school holidays - and both primaries did it from nursery upwards - behavior had to be good as they often had fires and were toasting food.

Why are people forever misunderstanding gentle parenting as permissive parenting!!

Because only people who seem to label themselves as doing this seem to be doing permissive parenting - and tend to have the kids others avoid and limit contact with when young.

From what I've seen even permissive parented kids do tend to grow up to normal kids getting influenced by peers and schools and groups but I'm not in pockets where this style of parenting is pervasive - perhaps it's like herd immunity though and if significant numbers parents do this perhaps it all goes to hell.

MeadAndPie · 13/08/2023 19:36

I don't think you are missing anything ShiteRider - it just seems to be parenting.

PlanetJanette · 13/08/2023 19:37

ShiteRider · 13/08/2023 19:31

What you’re describing as gentle parenting is just parenting. It doesn’t need a name. It’s not special. Or am I missing something?

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But it is a type of parenting that many people on here claim to disagree with, so it’s not as much of a no brainer as you seem to think.

crazyaginglady · 13/08/2023 19:38

Gentle parenting is a sensible and boundary lead method of parenting. The issue isn’t the theory, it’s the implementation. Parents know to avoid the authoritative methods but then get stuck on HOW to do natural consequences etc and just end of being permissive. It’s actually very hard.

I speak from experience 😳

Wishiwasatailor · 13/08/2023 19:38

ShiteRider · 13/08/2023 19:31

What you’re describing as gentle parenting is just parenting. It doesn’t need a name. It’s not special. Or am I missing something?

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There are several styles of parenting authoritarian, authoritative and permissive are the main styles

gentle parenting is actually authoritative parenting and is the most nurturing whilst maintain clear consistent boundaries

ShiteRider · 13/08/2023 19:39

PlanetJanette · 13/08/2023 19:37

But it is a type of parenting that many people on here claim to disagree with, so it’s not as much of a no brainer as you seem to think.

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Because you’re talking about two different things.

What many seem to be describing as gentle parenting isn’t what you’ve defined it as. My friend for example, and lots of other examples on here.

crazyaginglady · 13/08/2023 19:39

That should authoritarian! Doh.

Yellowlegobrick · 13/08/2023 19:41

The world is harsh and unfair, so parenting should be as well?

The world is not always harsh and unfair. Humans live and work in groups, and this means much of the time we need to put the greater benefit to the group, above our own individual wants & even needs.

A school classroom is a good example. The teacher has 30 children to educate. If he/she has to spend all her time explaining to little Jaxon why he isn't allowed to get up and draw pictures of frogs on the white board while she's doing a phonics game, the other 29 children miss the phonics game.

Public transport is another. A pilot of a plane is responsible for transporting dozens of people. If they suddenly have an incident and issue an instruction to brace, people need to comply fast and without question.

A lot of this is about trusting people in authority to know better than you & make better decisions on your behalf, and it begins at home learning to accept and trust your parents to make decisions for you. Because as a young child, your parents know better than you 99% of the time. We learn at home that there are times its okay to question and challenge and times when we need to do as we're told.

Gentle parenting always seems to assume infinite resource - endless money, plenty of alternative toys/activities, infinite amount of the parent's time and attention. This simply isn't the reality.

Wishiwasatailor · 13/08/2023 19:41

Styles of parenting

To think "gentle parents" are setting their kids up for a lifetime of friendlessness and struggling to hold down a job?

TheaBrandt · 13/08/2023 19:43

Why can’t you be thoughtful empathetic non aggressive etc parenting but then strict and firm on the rare occasions you need to be? So when your toddlers hits etc. That’s what we did anyway our teens have turned out really well - hard working easy company and others like being around them.

MagicClawHasNoChildren · 13/08/2023 19:44

Oh, look! OP's tossed a stinkbomb and then mysteriously failed to return to their threat.

How odd.

Yellowlegobrick · 13/08/2023 19:49

Things gentle parenting is:

-relying on actual reasons and logic for boundaries rather than just making it up as you go along; all parents do this

-explaining what the boundaries are and why they exist there are times when an explanation is appropriate, there are the times when there is not time to explain. There are times when you've explained the boundary before, the child has understood it but is selfish and disagrees with you and has chosen to push the boundary repeatedly because they feel the potential gain is worth it. Children need to learn to trust parents to make some of their decisions without parents needing to explain in detail every time

-applying natural and logical consequences when boundaries are broken; sometimes the natural or logical consequences available are not sufficient to deter the undesirable behaviour from being repeated

-recognising that a child - and a parent - has emotions, helping them to recognise them, and talking through acceptable and unacceptable ways of showing those emotions ^all good parents do this. It's also necessary that children learn that some of their emotions are disproportionate, and won't be fully acknowledged because they are not a reasonable response to the situation (for example - huge meltdown because your pear is served cutted up).

-recognising that your child can see when you get things wrong, and are as entitled to an apology as any adult would be if you mess up. this is just parenting unless you are a bit of dickhead.

RugbyMom123 · 13/08/2023 19:51

Conclusion I am getting is this is some kind of cult. The amount of @ s I have gotten from a very brief comment no longer than two lines saying at first glance I agree with some parts and not others. Half the comments imploring me to think about my parenting and providing rapid parenting advice is hilarious.

Honestly what on earth is going on lol 😂

Gerrataere · 13/08/2023 19:56

recognising that your child can see when you get things wrong, and are as entitled to an apology as any adult would be if you mess up. this is just parenting unless you are a bit of dickhead.

Then there are a lot of dickhead parents out there because many don’t believe in admitting they’re wrong to their children. It very much stems from boss/subordinate mentality when it comes to parenting, a manager is unlikely to tell office staff ‘there was a fuck up, I blamed Jim and sanctioned him when in fact I overreacted’. A lot of parents behave in exactly the same way.

Yellowlegobrick · 13/08/2023 19:58

Wishiwasatailor

What most of us find fault with is that authoritative/gentle parenting at times contradicts itself

In my book:

Its not much of a boundary if its flexible and you give the child lots of choices to effectively avoid it.

Structured environments is presented as a negative when many/most children thrive with structure

The diagram is also theoretical. I know almost no parents who's parenting styles involve "little warmth"

I find "gentle parents" call any consequence that is unpleasant/upsets the child a "punishment" when the vast majority of punishments are.....the natural consequences (its still a natural consequence if a parent could choose to mitigate it somewhat to make it less unpleasant and does not).

Yellowlegobrick · 13/08/2023 20:01

Being democratic with young children is a bit like the human race deciding we'll let every member of the animal race vote on political policy.

It assumes you will get rational, reasonable suggestions, when in fact toddlers often stridently demand completely bonkers nonsense they don't even want.

Rhino94 · 13/08/2023 20:03

Green777 · 13/08/2023 18:46

Children need boundaries to feel quietly and confidently secure.

Children who have been raised to feel entitled have been set up by their parents. No one will have the time or the energy for their bullshit in later life.

Absolutely need boundaries to feel safe and secure and this is a major part on gentle parenting…..