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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think an autistic child should not be treated like this by the police?

449 replies

Immoralplant · 10/08/2023 08:10

I don’t know the background to this video, but at no point is there any suggestion by the police that this autistic teenager has done anything other than say words the police didn’t like.

I am absolutely shocked that this is happening in Britain.

IABU - that’s an appropriate police response to homophobic words
IANBU - those police officers should be sacked

Warning: the video shows scenes of an autistic teenager being hurt.

twitter.com/SineadKelly113/status/1689176155562143744?s=20

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Soubriquet · 10/08/2023 12:07

Midnightfeasts · 10/08/2023 12:06

The police wear body cameras. But they can be conveniently broken or not working when it suits them. Speaking from experience.

Would be extremely convenient and a coincidence if all 6 weren’t working that night wouldn’t it. No one one believe it. One yes. Two maybe, but 3 is a pattern and 6 is unbelievable

HarridanHarvestingHeldaBeans · 10/08/2023 12:11

Firstworldprobs · 10/08/2023 11:58

And this is why I have been teaching my Autistic teenager for years that if he ever gets caught up in anything involving the police that he tells them he is Autistic at the earliest opportunity and make sure they hear him. It’s not to excuse any bad behaviour, it’s to make it less likely that the police escalate the situation by assuming he is NT, and give them a chance to change how they deal with him to keep things calm.

He’s a rule follower, but you never know what his mates, and peer pressure, might lead to as he gets older.

In this case, they knew. when the child was reported missing, her mother must have told them to make it clear that she is vulnerable. Plus, on the video the mother repeatedly says that the child is autistic, and the female officer says that she doesn't care.

Itsnotrightbutitsok · 10/08/2023 12:12

ntmdino · 10/08/2023 11:50

From the mum's account I posted above, she wasn't refusing entry - in fact, she didn't get a chance, because the original officer was outside the house when the comment was made and ran into the house to grab the girl; there was no opportunity to refuse. To my understanding, that should only be done without a warrant when there's significant danger to someone in the house.

If the facts given are broadly true (which, obviously, is yet to be determined legally), at least one of those officers could find this a career-ender. Assault and arrest without caution or cause are about as serious as it gets.

Yes that’s what’s so hard to understand.
Having 6 officers would surely mean that that person is a serious threat but even if she did something worse than what she apparently said, it still doesn’t require 6 officers.

If she was brought home by 1 or 2 police officers then how did it jump to 6.
They must have called for back up but you’d only do that if they were at risk of harm, which from the video they weren’t.

And no one was trying to arrest the mum or anyone else either, so they weren’t being a threat.

I’m not sure if it says how old she is but I’d have thought if she was underage then a parent would have to be there too.

Whatever she did, you would think one of the police officers would say this method isn’t working, let’s all calm down and talk about it and give her some space so we can do it calmly (and for 4 of the other officers to attend other crimes).

They knew where she lived and so if she refused they could have then told her she has 24 hours or it would escalate.

Midnightfeasts · 10/08/2023 12:16

@Soubriquet It was two officers in my case. They blatantly lied. It went to a solicitors. The solicitors knew they lying. But it wouldn't stand up in court. My word against theirs.

Soubriquet · 10/08/2023 12:17

Midnightfeasts · 10/08/2023 12:16

@Soubriquet It was two officers in my case. They blatantly lied. It went to a solicitors. The solicitors knew they lying. But it wouldn't stand up in court. My word against theirs.

Sounds about right. It’s no wonder people are videoing themselves when it happens

ntmdino · 10/08/2023 12:18

Itsnotrightbutitsok · 10/08/2023 12:12

Yes that’s what’s so hard to understand.
Having 6 officers would surely mean that that person is a serious threat but even if she did something worse than what she apparently said, it still doesn’t require 6 officers.

If she was brought home by 1 or 2 police officers then how did it jump to 6.
They must have called for back up but you’d only do that if they were at risk of harm, which from the video they weren’t.

And no one was trying to arrest the mum or anyone else either, so they weren’t being a threat.

I’m not sure if it says how old she is but I’d have thought if she was underage then a parent would have to be there too.

Whatever she did, you would think one of the police officers would say this method isn’t working, let’s all calm down and talk about it and give her some space so we can do it calmly (and for 4 of the other officers to attend other crimes).

They knew where she lived and so if she refused they could have then told her she has 24 hours or it would escalate.

Indeed. Because she's a minor, there must be an Appropriate Adult appointed who must be present when she's cautioned (which, apparently, she never was), and that AA must also confirm that they believe she understands the rights given in the caution.

It's worth noting that the mother is also autistic.

I'd also like to know exactly what the officer gave as her reason for requiring backup when she called for it, given that - at no point during the proceedings - did any of the other five question what was actually going on and whether there was justification for entering the property without permission and the use of force to remove the girl without caution. I'd imagine they'll be pretty pissed off with her now for putting them in the firing line.

AmazingSnakeHead · 10/08/2023 12:22

This is really distressing, I hope that it makes headline news and that they get arrested.

It's aslo extremely homophobic - there is nothing wrong with "looking like a lesbian". If you're a lesbian with long hair or a straight woman with a more traditionally masculine look I can see why the comments would get annoying, but equally there are certain stylisitc trends in all communities, including LGBT ones. We can't expect an autistic 14 year old to discern these differences well.

And even if the girl was being offensive, so what? She's 14, a scared child who had just been bought home in a police car. Just have a strong word with mum if it's so important.

Itsnotrightbutitsok · 10/08/2023 12:36

ntmdino · 10/08/2023 12:18

Indeed. Because she's a minor, there must be an Appropriate Adult appointed who must be present when she's cautioned (which, apparently, she never was), and that AA must also confirm that they believe she understands the rights given in the caution.

It's worth noting that the mother is also autistic.

I'd also like to know exactly what the officer gave as her reason for requiring backup when she called for it, given that - at no point during the proceedings - did any of the other five question what was actually going on and whether there was justification for entering the property without permission and the use of force to remove the girl without caution. I'd imagine they'll be pretty pissed off with her now for putting them in the firing line.

I completely agree.

IamfeelingConfused · 10/08/2023 12:45

I normally like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt but it does look the blonde police woman had it in for her - utterly horrific - and seriously this many police to arrest an unarmed teen?

IamfeelingConfused · 10/08/2023 12:47

I think this has played out as it seems to - this blonde police woman should be sacked in my opinion - she should not have power over vulnerable people. She literally said she didn't care the child was autistic and clearly does not understand how autistic people can be very literal.

Immoralplant · 10/08/2023 13:00

I think there are two really concerning and separate issues here.

  1. None of the officers appeared to have any understanding of autism, and none of them appear to take steps to de-escalate the situation. The fact the blonde responds ‘I don’t care’ when told the girl is autistic is beyond appalling, and shows complete disregard for the needs and rights of the disabled.

2)The initial arrest appears to have been because she said something the first police officer thought was ‘homophobic’.
It isn’t a crime to say something homophobic fgs, let alone an arrestable offence. She needs to be sacked for wasting police resources.

OP posts:
Bubop · 10/08/2023 13:05

Even if there’s more to the story, the police acted appalling. The only excuse to manhandle a teenager in that way (never mind a teenager with additional needs), is to protect someone from harm.

If she had been physically attacking someone then their actions might have been excusable (providing they used the minimum force required). But she was in a cupboard… she was no threat to anyone.

If she had genuinely done something that required taking her into custody, this should have been done in a way that was sensitive to her disabilities. Are the police not trained to deal with situations like this?

ntmdino · 10/08/2023 13:12

Are the police not trained to deal with situations like this?

Yes, they are. Apparently it's cool if it goes out the window when they're angry, though.

DaisyAndDonaldDuck · 10/08/2023 13:33

Actions have consequences. Maybe she’ll learn to not be so rude in future. If this lesson had been taught earlier it needn’t have got to this point.

PowerTulle · 10/08/2023 13:37

DaisyAndDonaldDuck · 10/08/2023 13:33

Actions have consequences. Maybe she’ll learn to not be so rude in future. If this lesson had been taught earlier it needn’t have got to this point.

Assume you are talking about the officer here? Agree she was beyond rude. Consequences like losing her job will be completely justifiable.

Anotherparkingthread · 10/08/2023 13:39

The female officer needs to ge sacked, she won't be because the police don't operate that way, but I wouldn't trust anybody in power with that kind of temper who takes things so personally. She's clearly not suited to the role at all. If she loses her shit over a 14 year old girls comments she's not no place in the force because she's going to be exposed to a lot worse than that. Weak minded individuals with an authority complex and no self control aren't mentally equipped to deal with situations like this.
I say also say this as a bisexual who wouldn't care if somebody called me a lesbian, because its not a dirty or offensive word and they would be half right.

alloalloallo · 10/08/2023 13:47

DaisyAndDonaldDuck · 10/08/2023 13:33

Actions have consequences. Maybe she’ll learn to not be so rude in future. If this lesson had been taught earlier it needn’t have got to this point.

Are you referring to the fully grown adult - in a position of authority? Or the child with a disability - a disability that is well known to include communication difficulties?

RubyJack · 10/08/2023 13:52

On WYP's Twitter.

To think an autistic child should not be treated like this by the police?
SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/08/2023 13:53

All police should wear and use body-worn cameras, for the protection of the public and for their own protection.

ntmdino · 10/08/2023 13:54

DaisyAndDonaldDuck · 10/08/2023 13:33

Actions have consequences. Maybe she’ll learn to not be so rude in future. If this lesson had been taught earlier it needn’t have got to this point.

I know, right? It's unconscionable that these parents can get away without teaching their kids not to be autistic. That whole "social difficulty" and "not being able to read emotions" thing is a myth, it's just parents not teaching their kids right.

WeetabixTowels · 10/08/2023 13:58

HermioneWeasley · 10/08/2023 08:17

I cannot fathom how it was ever approved for 6 police officers to go and manhandle a disabled child who hasn’t committed any crime? How does that even happen?

there needs to be a full investigation

This

Meanwhile they can’t attend robberies, women who’ve been beaten by their husband and neighbours who threaten to kill because they’re too busy apparently.

More context as to why the police were there and why some of the video is silent would be helpful - but the female officer who was called a lesbian is clearly massively insensitive to say “I don’t care” when a mother explains about her child’s disability. Then huffing at the end - our police force need a thicker skin than this

WeetabixTowels · 10/08/2023 14:00

Thinking about it they were maybe saying her name in the part with no sound or their address and the mum obviously wants privacy

PowerTulle · 10/08/2023 14:03

That statement by West Yorkshire Police is disgusting. No wonder the police get away with so much. Even with video evidence to the contrary they insinuate the officer was suffering abuse and justified.

ntmdino · 10/08/2023 14:04

RubyJack · 10/08/2023 13:52

On WYP's Twitter.

Interesting. So...they're saying that she committed a public order offence, which proves that either the officer was outside the home as per the mother's account, or the arrest was unlawful.

A public order offence - other than affray, which isn't the charge here - cannot be committed if both the victim and the perpetrator are inside a home. That being the case, the officer was outside the home when the comment was made, and did not have permission to enter the home (or re-enter), which means the arrest was unlawful.

If the officer was inside the home, then the offence could not have been committed by definition, and the arrest was unlawful.

Bit of an oopsie from the police there.

neverbeenskiing · 10/08/2023 14:04

DaisyAndDonaldDuck · 10/08/2023 13:33

Actions have consequences. Maybe she’ll learn to not be so rude in future. If this lesson had been taught earlier it needn’t have got to this point.

No, she's not going to "learn" to be NT so bore off with your goady ablesist bullshit.