To think it's embarrassing how English has one of the easiest grammar systems, and yet so many people don't know the basic rules...

[Skyeboat]

I'm a linguist, and the languages I studied have very complex grammar rules compared to English. So much so that native speakers have to memorise verb tables, moods, cases etc. at primary school level, and even those who didn't study to a high level know the basic rules.
English is one of the simplest languages, and yet the amount of native English speakers I see making really obvious mistakes is just embarrassing.
Is the problem that we just don't teach grammar and syntax in school?
For example, I saw a FB post today selling "Teddy's" (as opposed to teddies). That's actually the most common mistake I see - people, even businesses, not knowing how to use apostrophes and form plurals. I'd understand if it was a complicated rule that required memorisation with a lot of exceptions, but it's soo basic. It takes about 10 minutes to learn then you're all set.
I went to a pretty average state school, and I remember they did teach us these things, but we weren't rigorously tested on them or required to repeat them regularly. So I do believe the problem is with a lack of focus on basic English from a young age.
Am I being unreasonable or is this really embarrassing that we have such a poor grasp of our own mother tongue?

Meant to say, I do find it noticeable when people confuse things like your/you're, its/it's, their/they're/there, but I would never comment on it because one of my friends is severely dyslexic and I know how embarrassed and insecure she is over her own spelling, so you never know with these things. Even now she gets someone to proof read email etc before sending as she's so worried she'll make a really obvious mistake and look silly

I was at school during the 80's and 90's and don't remember being taught much about grammar at primary school. It wasn't until I started learning a foreign language at secondary school that I learned what verbs/nouns/adjectives and tenses etc are!

It does seem to be better in schools now though as both of my children have been taught grammar, spelling and punctuation since Year 1 and have a much better grasp of it all than I did at the same age.

Who cares 🤷🏻‍♀️

I disagree with you; English is a complex language to learn where both accent and dialect play a large part in how it is written and spoken. British English is not one language, but many amalgamated into the language that we use today. How many irregular verb forms does French have? Ask yourself how many British English has and you will begin to see the root of the problem.
Primary school teachers are amazing but to expect them to teach small children the complexities of apostrophes and commas (for example) is not only unfair on the teacher but too complex for many children to grasp. Is it revisited in secondary school? My guess would be, that it is not so if you didn’t understand at primary school you’ve had your only chance. For those who go on to university, again, it is not revised. Lecturers accept a shocking standard of writing, in my opinion. If the ideas are good then the structure should be equally good if you are going to award high marks.
Until we recognise the importance of good spelling, punctuation and grammar we are in a race to the bottom where we’ll all lose.

I think that if it is something you are good at or have a lot of knowledge about it must grate when people get it wrong. For example an advanced driver must grit their teeth at terrible driving, and I grit my teeth when I see a TV chef use a metal cooking utensil in a non stick pan

P.S. I am not arguing for the extermination of accent or the use of dialect. They give us a strong sense of identity and belonging. I am simply mentioning the impact. Teachers should use correct diction in the classroom so that children can develop their skills. Is it “are” language or “our” language?

I know what you mean, OP. Basics like plurals, they’re, their, there etc. More common to see them used wrongly than correctly, especially in FB land. Dunno why, people claim dyslexia but all dyslexics are different, why would they all struggle with the same rules?!

I did Russian to degree level, and some Spanish, French and Serbian. We certainly don’t have some of the complexities of grammar. Russian verbs of motion still make me shudder!

@RampantIvy that last one is just common sense!

You would have thought so @wehaveeaches. It wasn't a very good analogy was it?

To be fair, Shakespeare spelt his name in various different ways!

Your being unreasonabe sum of us weren't to a ruff skool where we lernt nothin

I think it could be embarrassing. Especially when an expert makes grammatical mistakes and whose punctuation isnt up to scratch either

utmost

We used to do something called box analysis.

Language is a living and evolving thing. The way people "spoke correctly" 20 years ago may become totally irrelevant and somewhat changed 5 year's time. Interesting to witness and experience......

My sincerest apologies for my dyslexia.

I strongly dislike this view. What it actually amounts to saying is unless you were privileged enough to not only be taught these rules in school, but also have a retentive memory, and opportunities to consolidate your learning through access to books, a requirement to communicate in writing and an environment where the rules were reinforced by your peers, anything you have to say is secondary to the way you say it.
People from all sorts of backgrounds have opinions, knowledge and insight to share. Views like yours inhibit them. I'd rather people said something interesting in a grammatically incorrect way than something dull and judgemental written in accordance with the rules.

I think that the advent of text speak, with its contractions, has had an impact on the understanding of plurals, the use of the apostrophe and correct use of all the to, two, too, their, there they’re type of words.

For some it grates, for some it doesn’t matter, providing that what is written can be understood. If someone writes a post that is a long stream of consciousness, without punctuation or paragraphs, it can de difficult to decipher the point of the post and I think it puts people off.

There will be people who struggle with grammar, punctuation and spelling. There will also be those who believe it’s irrelevant.

Also it is sad to think people are reluctant to share their opinions and experiences because they KNOW they have poor grammar, so they shut up rather than be embarrassed by people like OP.

There's a somewhat ingrained resistance to learning grammar in depth in the UK.

I agree OP, grammatically English is not overly complex. Our spelling, pronunciation, variation of dialects and heavy use of phrasal verbs are more challenging than in many other languages though. Learning a second/other language is always hard though -it's not a competition.

I agree that learning English grammar thoroughly at school would probably benefit us, both in terms of professional usage and learning other languages. And learning native language grammar is something that appears to be managed in many other education systems worldwide. Overall education doesn't seem to be as highly valued in the UK as it is elsewhere. Is it because of the class system perhaps? That historically you couldn't really 'better yourself' through education so why bother, when you could just start earning instead?

I expect the feeling that there has been a great regression in spelling and grammar is fuelled by the number of semi-literate people who are able to publish written work with a reach that is unprecedented (sorry) at any other point in history.

Forums, newspaper commentary, Facebook and the like are a space in which people have come to conduct their lives and express their ideas. In some ways, it could be seen as a progressive democratization of the published written word and otherwise invisible voices but it's more fun to point out the chester draws and those who cannot distinguish between to, two and too.

It's pretty easy to reach an intermediate level in English, due to the simple grammar, forgiving pronunciation, etc. English is by far the most studied second language in the world, and* it's really not that hard to reach the B1/B2 level that is frequently required for university courses and jobs in many countries.

However, it's harder to reach an advanced level, as you'll be dealing with issues like gerund vs infinitive, phrasal verbs, and so on.

Other languages have a much steeper initial learning curve, as they may have more complex conjugation, more precise pronunciation, tones, declinations, gender, etc.

Making mistakes in your L1 is certainly not limited to English. Ask any Spanish speaker about a ver vs haber, leismo, laismo...

• a comma before and is correct when connecting two independent clauses.

I think you’ll find that’s ‘brung’ up. 🧑‍🎓

I found learning Portuguese taught me a lot about our own language. As far as verbs are cooncerned, we have simplified enormously. You can find most/all the Portuguese tenses in English (Portuguese verbs are nototious for their number of conjugations), but in English you can't tell them apart because we use the same verb form for two or more different tenses. We also make much more use of auxiliary verbs eg "I was sitting" "I would have been sitting" rather than just having a different ending to "sit" to indicate the "was" or "would have been"

Should it not say are not is?

What I'm talking about are the super basic rules...* *