Mixing classes every year - potential for long term harm?

[lonechild]

Having just read another thread about classes being mixed up in junior school and not being placed with friends, it's been a massive trigger for me that I want some perspective on.

This was me, virtually every year throughout infant and junior school and now I have issues with social anxiety, fear of rejection and keeping/making friends. AIBU to think the school was unreasonable to do this and it could be the cause of long term socialisation issues?

Sorry this is long, but to summarise my school journey:

Reception year - Made a best friend almost instantly and we were inseparable all year. Spent a lot of time together both in and out of school.

Year 1 - split up from from best friend in class mix up. Made no new friends that I can remember at all. In fact I couldn't tell you a single classmate from that year. Don't recall any play dates etc from school.

Year 2 - was put back into a class with original best friend, however she had made new friends in y1 who were also in the same class. Remember play dates etc as a group but always felt like an outsider and certainly wasn't "best" friend any more. Made a couple of other friends I remember playing with from my class but not strong ones.

Year 3 - split from all friends again. Like year 1, I couldn't name a single person in this class. Dont remember being invited to others houses or having friends over from the class. Previous best friend stayed with other group and although I continued to play at break times and went to parties/play dates with them, very much felt like an outsider.

Year 4 - new class again. Drifted from the other group but made one friend who I was quite close to. Probably described ourselves as best friends. Spent a lot of time at her house and her at mine. I remember calling each other at night (I still remember her number!) so feel like this was a genuine friendship but - and this is potentially outing hence the name change - she was also given an award, by my teacher, in assembly, in front of the whole school, for “being my friend that week”. I can’t recall with clarity but I guess that was at the start of our friendship. That’s definitely stuck with me as one of the most mortifying moments of my life.

And, you guessed it….

Year 5 - split from friend and she went on to make new ones so the friendship ended. I recall having several friends this year - not necessarily a group of friends but different friends I was close to and spent time at each others houses etc. Remember being quite happy this year and not so much of an outsider.

Year 6 - not put in a class with any of those I was friends with the previous year. Was in the same class as the friendship group with my reception best friend (who had all stayed together throughout junior school). I became good friends with them again.

Secondary - we all went to the same school but there was a max number that could be in the same class from each junior school and I got the short straw so was put into a different class. They stay best friends to this day (with some others from their class). I made good friends throughout my time there but don’t stay in touch with anyone from secondary (or college/uni/old workplaces for that matter) and have always felt like an outsider anywhere I go.

My kids are at a village school with one class so I didn't really think this was still a thing until reading the other thread. Would a school do this nowadays and if so, would you stand for it for your child? I know my parents did fight this on a several occasions but there was always a "reason" why it couldn't happen.

AIBU to think that this could set a child up for long term issues, and this has potentially been the case for me?

My children are at a small school with only one form entry per year and I actually worry about the opposite. I don't particularly want them getting very very strongly attached to the others in their class for 7 whole years when they when will be entering a secondary school without them. I would much rather than continually mix with new children.

I'm sure it happens sometimes, but I don't know anyone still friends with their friends at primary school. The most solid of friendships I know were made at secondary school, college and university.

My DS is about to start school. 2-class entry of 45 reception kids, and then years 1-2 have 3 classes of 30, then same again for years 3-4 and 5-6. Every school in my town is the same (there are 9).

I don't love it but I guess DS will be with different kids each year - however he can mix with who he wants in the playground.

What I did object to was being moved into year 3 instead of 2 due to being a September birthday and that class needing another child, being with that group for 3 years, then having to do year 6 again while they all went to secondary!

I’m really sorry to hear that. It’s so sad.

This happened to my daughter; she was so unhappy throughout primary and junior school. She does also have insecurities around being ‘worthy’ of her friends now.

She has an amazing group of friends now from high school but is off to college soon (no 6th form available). I hope she can continue to see her high school friends over the next couple of years and that she settle well at college.

I wish they wouldn’t move kids around so much. My daughter on the outside appeared confident and capable, so was the one they always moved. She has had to have counselling as a result.

I did split classes at school and it wasn't an issue at all. We all played together at play time so it didn't matter who was in what class. I think you are proportioning too much blame for your current struggles on what would usually only be a minor part of someone's childhood. I agree that for you it could have contributed to how you cope with things now but I suspect there was also lots of other stuff going on too?

The thing is, you're only seeing the situation from your own perspective. The teacher will have been looking at the class as a whole.

So for example, you were "inseparable" from your friend in Reception. At that age that's not always healthy. When she moved into a different class in Year 1 she went on to make several new friends. Separating you both allowed your friend to explore other friendships. That's a very positive thing.

The examples you give show a pattern of you becoming very attached to one person when you were younger. It's awful though that someone thought it appropriate to give a child an award for being your friend. That should never have happened.

At my school (and I imagine most others are similar), a great deal of thought goes into deciding who should be in which class. Class lists were still being swapped around right up until the deadline, making sure each class had a balance of ability and that children who weren't a good mix weren't together.

My daughters school mix them up every single year. They are asked for a list of 3 names who they would like to stay with but it's not guaranteed. It hasn't caused any issues so far for anyone I know.

If classes stay the same throughout primary school how will the children learn to adapt to new peers?

I'm surprised schools do this, I went to a 2 form entry primary and I don't remember anyone swapping class. I was a shy kid I would have really struggled if I had to make new friends every year I think. My best friend from primary and I went on to secondary together but did eventually drift apart and now we have each other on Facebook but that's about it

DD is starting Y7 in September and DS going into Y10, they both went to the same Junior school (all through school from 3-18) and classes were mixed up every year, it hasn't caused any issues at all. I'm actually all for it, both of them have good friends across the whole year now. Friendships, especially for DD, do seem to come and go but they can both always find someone they like to play/talk to at lunch/break.

It impacts children differently. My two girls had this at their first primary school.

DD1 thrived - she loves new people. She made friends easily each year and is still friends with people from primary and secondary school now she’s at Uni.

DD2 hated it. She is very much someone who has a best friend. She likes small groups and is quite intense with friendships. She struggled at the start of each year. I do think however, it would have benefitted the friend she made to be encouraged to make new friends the following year as DD was quite intense (she’s a lot better now, but still prefers small groups).

I'm not sure keeping children with a single best friend year after year is that great either (which is presumably what you would have preferred). It's pretty unusual to stay friends with the same people across your whole school lifetime.

Maybe look at your experience from the other perspective - if you're the child in the class with no friends, wouldn't you quite like the classes to be mixed up to give you a chance of making a new one in the following year?

I think it could be a non issue given the right personalities and circumstances but for some it’s detrimental.
For my daughter, the most damaging time was her nursery year from age 3. The school merged nursery and reception that year as a cost cutting exercise. The lovely nursery was repurposed and she was in a prefab with multiple classes of mixed nursery and reception classes. The nurture and home from home setting was missing. All the way through the primary years it yo you’d from her bring the oldest to the youngest in the class. For her it had consequences that as a 17 year old she lives with still.
I sometimes feel so angry that the school didn’t care enough about the effect of their decisions on the children. Not long after my daughter left reception, they reverted back to the nursery setting because it was better for the children.

I went to a two form entry school in the 80s and no one ever moved class.

I hated it when we went to high school; all classes were grouped alphabetically by surname. Most of the girls I’d gone to school with and were close to had, unluckily for me, surnames in the top quarter of the alphabet while mine was P. I was with no one I knew, apart from in form time. It was better for the 4 lessons we were put in sets for, as that was by ability.

I'm sorry you struggled, but I actually don't think it's very healthy for small children to be completely inseparable from each other.

Children should have a variety of different friends and it's normal (and healthy) for those friendships to change as you grow up and go through the school system. Changing classes around allows children to meet new people and make new friends.

My kids have the other issue, they don't mix classes, which can lead to its issues with friendships and when there are children with challenging behaviours or unmet extra needs.

I'm also pro-mixing as I went to a small village primary school and had a nice but also very intense and jealous best friend, when she left our school around year 4 I missed her but was also so relieved to finally be able to have other friends. My mum said later that she'd already thought about moving schools, it was that extreme.

Last time we spoke a few years ago, my old friend talked about how it was so awful that she and I got split up like this, even when I tried to gently challenge her on it. She's so lovely but still finds social cues and this kind of empathy hard, and I wonder if there's any similarity there for you, OP - it could well be that you didn't get moved with friends because they were thoughtless (the 'award' certainly was horrible), but it could also be because sometimes very intense best friend relationships at this age aren't quite equal or necessarily healthy for the children involved and their social development.

It may be that your social challenges at a younger age were the foreshadowing of these issues at an older age, not a cause. In either case though, you sound lovely and reflective and shouldn't have to suffer what you are now - have you ever had counselling about these issues?

How do you know about that happening? I have zero memories of primary school. Children need to learn resilience

I think you've hit the nail on the head about feeing worthy. This is really similar to how I feel. Of course I don't think it's the norm to have the same friends right through school and into adulthood (although certainly possible) but it's how I feel about relationships with other people which gets me wondering if this is comes as a result of always feeling that friendships are transient and not having enough self-worth in myself as a friend to think that it will last.

I'm definitely someone that does prefer 1-2-1/small groups so maybe that's a factor and can see that expanding friendship groups can be a positive, but for someone who doesn't make friends easily it's probably pretty exhausting when it's short lived.

Maybe I need some therapy!

i can say in my case myself and my bf were very naughty together we would have a year together then be split when they remembered we aren’t a good mix . We are now in touch 30 years later and she is godmother to my Ds..

my own Ds in primary he had to put 3 people he would like to be with one ( they worded as) who you don’t work well with . He is just leaving high school still best mates with friends from year 1..

My DCs' primary is single-form intake with no room to jiggle changes of combinations. If you're lucky to be in a class with a pleasant, compatible combination of children and find other people you click with that's great. Some class combinations are just hard work and fractious. Some have tight friendship groups that don't shift and that leaves some children on the periphery for years.

I went to two different primary schools. One re-jigged the classes each year. The other tended to keep the same combinations but did end up changing them y5-6 in my year as multiple friendship issues sprang up and needed breaking up and diluting. Y6 was far more settled after that.

There is room for being sensitive in managing friendship combinations and not constantly breaking up the same childrens' friendships, but in a socially healthy child, changing class combinations shouldn't have a lasting impact. Also not fitting with one class for 7 years can also be damaging.

At secondary, combinations are regularly broken up into different set combinations by different subjects.

Extra curriculars are also important for socialising beyond the contraints of school classes, either for expanding beyond a limited range or for a few years of stability if classes change.

@cantstaystuck

Yes, the cause/effect certainly has been something I've thought about - in fact, that's always what I have assumed to be what the problem is rather than apportioning blame! But reading that thread just hit me like a tonne of bricks - my immediate reaction was how awful for that child to move to a class with no friends, then I realised that's what happened to me time and time again.

Like a lot of other people right now, questioning whether I might have adhd traits and it could certainly be the case that it was intentional by the teachers that I became "too attached" to one person. I can obviously only see things from my perspective but looking back it just seems cruel for a child that obviously struggles to make friends to have to start every year anew.

Coming from a teacher, I wish we didn't mix classes by default. Sometimes there's a very good reason for it (unbalanced needs/behaviour/friendship issues across a cohort, for example) but I disagree with doing it every year for the sake of it. It's hard for children who are shy or anxious, or those separated from their friends for whatever reason. Sometimes the new classes turn out less balanced than before as on paper it can look very different from reality.

I remember loads from primary. And infant school. I don't think it's normal not to, is it?!

It genuinely hadn't occurred to me until this thread that some people have the exact same set of classmates all through primary school. The school I went to had one and a half classes per year so we had one full class per age group and then a composite class. I suspect that they didn't want the same kids being in the composite every year (both for the sake of fairness in learning and because this would've been a smaller group of peers) so there was shuffling about every year. It was always disappointing when your closest friends were in the other class but you still saw one another at lunch, plus you knew that you would potentially be shuffled back together the following year.

On an only semi-connected note I've just Googled as never heard anyone in England mention composites before - seems like maybe they're a Scottish thing?

They're quite common in rural areas with small schools and small intakes. Not just Scotland.