Mixing classes every year - potential for long term harm?

[lonechild]

Having just read another thread about classes being mixed up in junior school and not being placed with friends, it's been a massive trigger for me that I want some perspective on.

This was me, virtually every year throughout infant and junior school and now I have issues with social anxiety, fear of rejection and keeping/making friends. AIBU to think the school was unreasonable to do this and it could be the cause of long term socialisation issues?

Sorry this is long, but to summarise my school journey:

Reception year - Made a best friend almost instantly and we were inseparable all year. Spent a lot of time together both in and out of school.

Year 1 - split up from from best friend in class mix up. Made no new friends that I can remember at all. In fact I couldn't tell you a single classmate from that year. Don't recall any play dates etc from school.

Year 2 - was put back into a class with original best friend, however she had made new friends in y1 who were also in the same class. Remember play dates etc as a group but always felt like an outsider and certainly wasn't "best" friend any more. Made a couple of other friends I remember playing with from my class but not strong ones.

Year 3 - split from all friends again. Like year 1, I couldn't name a single person in this class. Dont remember being invited to others houses or having friends over from the class. Previous best friend stayed with other group and although I continued to play at break times and went to parties/play dates with them, very much felt like an outsider.

Year 4 - new class again. Drifted from the other group but made one friend who I was quite close to. Probably described ourselves as best friends. Spent a lot of time at her house and her at mine. I remember calling each other at night (I still remember her number!) so feel like this was a genuine friendship but - and this is potentially outing hence the name change - she was also given an award, by my teacher, in assembly, in front of the whole school, for “being my friend that week”. I can’t recall with clarity but I guess that was at the start of our friendship. That’s definitely stuck with me as one of the most mortifying moments of my life.

And, you guessed it….

Year 5 - split from friend and she went on to make new ones so the friendship ended. I recall having several friends this year - not necessarily a group of friends but different friends I was close to and spent time at each others houses etc. Remember being quite happy this year and not so much of an outsider.

Year 6 - not put in a class with any of those I was friends with the previous year. Was in the same class as the friendship group with my reception best friend (who had all stayed together throughout junior school). I became good friends with them again.

Secondary - we all went to the same school but there was a max number that could be in the same class from each junior school and I got the short straw so was put into a different class. They stay best friends to this day (with some others from their class). I made good friends throughout my time there but don’t stay in touch with anyone from secondary (or college/uni/old workplaces for that matter) and have always felt like an outsider anywhere I go.

My kids are at a village school with one class so I didn't really think this was still a thing until reading the other thread. Would a school do this nowadays and if so, would you stand for it for your child? I know my parents did fight this on a several occasions but there was always a "reason" why it couldn't happen.

AIBU to think that this could set a child up for long term issues, and this has potentially been the case for me?

Thanks - that makes sense! Most of the discussions I've had around schools since living down here have been either in the context of kids going to school in the city we live in, or with people who went to school in the area, so that probably explains why it hasn't come up.

I think in Scotland you are guaranteed your catchment school so schools cannot control their intake like they can in England where you can be allocated a different primary school to the one you applied for of the school is full, hence composite is much more common.

I think composite is fine for the majority of pupils, but for some it is deeply, deeply damaging. Those with anxiety and socialisation difficulties such as asd can really suffer with serious mental health implications. When this happened to my child what I found so infuriating was the attitude of the Head teacher. Total disregard of our lived experience of the damage it was doing to my child. Claims that it would ‘build resilience’ and that most children found composure classes fine so we were clearly just making up the way that my previously happy child cried themselves to sleep each and every night about this for months and months. I get that to some extent occasionally head teachers need to say no in some situations but not when continuing to do so actively harms a child.

They're pretty common in small, rural schools in England. Our rural primary had composite classes up until years 5/6.

I went to a two class entry primary and never swapped classes. I make friends slowly and prefer small groups. I didn't really fit in to my class but did have a few best friends until y6 when they ditched me and I had no friends.

I think I'd have hated class swapping (although I suppose it might have helped in y6) so I don't think I'd be keen on it for dc. But as pp prove, what works well for some children doesn't work for others. I wonder if there are studies showing whether one is better than the other in general.

I deliberately went to a senior school where I knew no one as a new start. No class streaming or swapping there until y10 and it was great for me.

I have got absolutely no idea what happened with my classes in primary school. I have never given it a single thought until reading this thread. I moved at the end of Y6 and have never seen anyone from primary school again. It has had no impact on my life whatsoever... I wonder if you might struggle with friendships more generally and be projecting your primary experience onto this, rather than the primary experience being the cause?

I always wondered about the value in doing this given my best friends now at 47 are the same friends I met in reception. One was in the other class and we became more friendly in year 6, but the others because we were in the same class all those years. My son has the same friends from primary, but my DD doesn’t, and her classes were changed a lot. She’s also pretty shy, so probably why she’s not got the same friends, but I do think it doesn’t help children like her who aren’t the most confident. DS would have coped easily as he’s quite outgoing like his Dad and I, but DD is chronically shy. Thankfully she does have a small group of friends at school (she’s year 11 in Sep) but they aren’t from her primary school

It cuts many ways.
My (huge, 8 form entry) primary school mixed up classes every year. It was always a relief not to end up in the same class as the girl who bullied me.
The DC went to a 1 form entry rural primary school. DD's class was very boy heavy and she didn't really gel with many of girls. When her best female friend left, the nonchalance of the others turned to bullying, and DD had nowhere to go.

As somebody who works in a small school where children are stuck with each other in a cohort of around 12 children all the way up primary school, I would argue that's often worse.

I think it depends where you grow up. I grew up in a small Welsh town and I have the same best friends years later. We have other friends and I’ve moved 250 miles away but if I needed them tomorrow they’d be here. Many people seem to have the same friendship groups (I see the photos on FB on them with their old school besties and now their own children). It’s that kind of place. Here in South London / Surrey border it’s not the same

Mixing classes up every year feels like overkill to me. I remember the classes being mixed up twice throughout my entire time at primary school. Same for my children at their school.

I'm still friends with quite a few people from Primary school! My school had a 2 form intake but we never swapped, for which I am thankful as I find it hard to make friends but had a group of 3/4 of us who were friends. My DS is autistic and struggles with change so very glad he is at a 1 form intake as he wouldn't cope at all!
It's strange but I have never heard of classes being mixed round, knew anyone from another school where they did it or have any friends now who mention it happening to their children so had no idea this even happened.

My kids’ primary is three form entry, and they mix them up occasionally - maybe every other year on average. Obviously they like having friends in their classes, but I’ve never got the impression that who’s in what class has that much impact on who plays together in the playground at lunch, or out of school.

My kids school mix classes every year. It's worked out badly for my DD every year and next year all of her friends are in the same class and she isn't. It seems so unfair to her.

OP, I think it's a double egded sword but I lean towards thinking that mixing them up is a good thing.

I don't think it does the bulk of children any favours not to mix with different kids every year - they'll need to do this at some point and lack of any preparation is not a recipe for success in adulthood.

Having said that, for those children who struggle socially , it could well lead to added difficulty keeping friends (but not making them since it's practice).

• As a quiet, shy child, I went to a two-form entry largish primary school where years were mixed up every so often. I ended up feeling lonely towards the end of primary
• Quiet, shy DC went to a 2-year-per-room tiny primary where she stayed with the same kids year after year. Ended up feeling lonely towards the end of primary (and frankly, it became stiffling).

Make of that what you will, but IMO it's all in the temperament.

But FWIW, I think it's somehow worse to feel lonely when surrounded by people you have known for years.

If classes stay the same throughout primary school how will the children learn to adapt to new peers?

Do they need to? I was in the same class through the infants until we moved to a different area for the juniors. I was in the same class through the juniors, with a best friend. We did the 11 plus and I moved to the grammar with same best friend and quite a few others in my year.

We were in the same classes through grammar school, but were set in English, Maths, and French in Y10, then the top sets did French with Texts, Additional Maths and English Lit in Y11. We all did different options at O level and A level. I had best friend from Juniors, and best friend in my class; but mixed with most groups of girls. (There was a really bitchy group, who bullied pretty much everyone else, smoking behind the bike sheds, etc)

We all learnt to mix at the grammar school in PE, the sets, the subject groups….

I keep up with my university friends, but never saw those who failed the 11 plus again; and only kept up with two best friends from school. Imo, OP is overthinking primary school friends?

It sounds like your school managed it badly in not ensuring you had a friend in the new class, and also that you were particularly sensitive/unlucky. But there is a reason that schools mix classes. DD’s old school refused to mix classes ever and DD was stuck in a class that was mostly boys and a few girls she had nothing in common with. There were some lovely girls in the other class I know she would have made friends with if the school had occasionally mixed classes up. As it was we eventually quit the school.

Don’t blame your lonkiness on the fact thst classes were mixed. If you only had one friend in reception that’s a failure by the parents and teacher.

I think someone could also say I was stuck in a class with kids that were unkind to me. It has led me to have difficulties with XYZ. I wish that I had been given the chance to make new friends.

Really interesting to get so many perspectives on this. It certainly seems different schools take a lot of different approaches. I wonder if there actually had been any research done on what is best for kids social development?

Those saying I'm putting too much emphasis on primary school friends/friendships from primary aren't meant to last are missing my point. I'm not in any way blaming this on not still being friends with kids from primary, more wondering if this had a lasting effect on my social skills later in life.

School years are formative not just for academic education but social development too.

My DD can't wait to start Secondary School in a years time to escape the toxic cliques in her Primary school class... its 2 form entry but her year group hasn't been mixed up since Yr1. The other class is fine, her class is always having friendship drama.

Not mixing is fine if the class is happy .. but sometimes the atmosphere isn't that good.

DS(8) goes to a 3-form entry Infants & Juniors schools and they mix the year groups; the only year they didn’t was Sept 2020 and that was due to the lockdown and wanting some continuity for the very youngest pupils. The school does not ask pupils or parents for a list of friends they want to be with and will not engage in discussions about friendship groups being kept together.

They do say they try to keep children with at least two friends where possible, but they also need to balance other needs of the year group as a whole ie friendship dynamics and clashes, SEN, bullying, challenging behaviour, those needing more support, high achievers etc.

So far DS has taken it all in his stride but he is a fairly confident child who will talk/play with anyone so yearly mixing is good for him, however for shy/reserved/lower confidence children this must be difficult. I would expect a school to make an extra effort to ensure they are placed with at least two friends, and try and encourage them to build their confidence with talking/playing with fellow pupils.

Back in the mid-80’s I was in a single-form entry school until age 10 then I switched to a multi-form entry (2-4 classes per year) and the classes were always mixed. I was a very shy and reserved child but I don’t recall it bothering me.

My friend’s y5 child is in a 2-form entry that does not mix yearly and he has been badly bullied by a child in his class since y3. The school flatly refuse to move him to the other class as they say it will set a precedent, so they are removing him from the school. This is where not mixing is detrimental- in three years this child has not had a break from his bully which could have happened if they mixed, plus the school refusing to deal with the bullying issue either (personally I would have removed my child a long time ago).

This is also why I never considered a 1-form entry school for my DS - you only need one child to start bullying your child and others group behind the bully to protect themselves. There is no escape if the school won’t deal with it and I’ve seen this scenario played out on MN many times over the years.

They mixed my sons classes each year at primary school. I think it's good for them. My sons made friends with lots of children after struggling for a long time with friendships where the classes were set.

They mix where I work because of a fall in numbers different year groups are taught together in Ks2. Prior to that there was no mixing. When we mix we always make sure children are put with at least one child that they name. No one is ever thrown in with strangers.

My child attended a school with 4 or 5 classes in every year. They jumbled the students every year so there was always a new mix in every classroom. it was the same when I was a child.

By the time they get to year 6, there are even more students at the school and more mixing throughout the day.

it’s difficult when your child struggles to make friends as mine does, but it’s just the way things work at some schools. It’s also nice because if your child didn’t click with anyone, they have a chance of finding a good friend the next year.