Mixing classes every year - potential for long term harm?

[lonechild]

Having just read another thread about classes being mixed up in junior school and not being placed with friends, it's been a massive trigger for me that I want some perspective on.

This was me, virtually every year throughout infant and junior school and now I have issues with social anxiety, fear of rejection and keeping/making friends. AIBU to think the school was unreasonable to do this and it could be the cause of long term socialisation issues?

Sorry this is long, but to summarise my school journey:

Reception year - Made a best friend almost instantly and we were inseparable all year. Spent a lot of time together both in and out of school.

Year 1 - split up from from best friend in class mix up. Made no new friends that I can remember at all. In fact I couldn't tell you a single classmate from that year. Don't recall any play dates etc from school.

Year 2 - was put back into a class with original best friend, however she had made new friends in y1 who were also in the same class. Remember play dates etc as a group but always felt like an outsider and certainly wasn't "best" friend any more. Made a couple of other friends I remember playing with from my class but not strong ones.

Year 3 - split from all friends again. Like year 1, I couldn't name a single person in this class. Dont remember being invited to others houses or having friends over from the class. Previous best friend stayed with other group and although I continued to play at break times and went to parties/play dates with them, very much felt like an outsider.

Year 4 - new class again. Drifted from the other group but made one friend who I was quite close to. Probably described ourselves as best friends. Spent a lot of time at her house and her at mine. I remember calling each other at night (I still remember her number!) so feel like this was a genuine friendship but - and this is potentially outing hence the name change - she was also given an award, by my teacher, in assembly, in front of the whole school, for “being my friend that week”. I can’t recall with clarity but I guess that was at the start of our friendship. That’s definitely stuck with me as one of the most mortifying moments of my life.

And, you guessed it….

Year 5 - split from friend and she went on to make new ones so the friendship ended. I recall having several friends this year - not necessarily a group of friends but different friends I was close to and spent time at each others houses etc. Remember being quite happy this year and not so much of an outsider.

Year 6 - not put in a class with any of those I was friends with the previous year. Was in the same class as the friendship group with my reception best friend (who had all stayed together throughout junior school). I became good friends with them again.

Secondary - we all went to the same school but there was a max number that could be in the same class from each junior school and I got the short straw so was put into a different class. They stay best friends to this day (with some others from their class). I made good friends throughout my time there but don’t stay in touch with anyone from secondary (or college/uni/old workplaces for that matter) and have always felt like an outsider anywhere I go.

My kids are at a village school with one class so I didn't really think this was still a thing until reading the other thread. Would a school do this nowadays and if so, would you stand for it for your child? I know my parents did fight this on a several occasions but there was always a "reason" why it couldn't happen.

AIBU to think that this could set a child up for long term issues, and this has potentially been the case for me?

I agree I genuinely do not understand the concept that splitting close friendships up so children can make new friends is a good thing.

I had a close friend in reception, we were split up and never in the same class. I struggled every year and had few friends in school. Which meant for me school was a lonely time.

My son has asd and is delayed socially. In year 2 he made his first friends it was a wonderful experience for him. In year 3 they were separated and he massively struggled.

And to give the opposite perspective, my DD was with the same group of children for 7 years from starting primary at almost 5, to leaving at almost 12. The group of 15 girls in the class sometimes got on, sometimes didn't get on. After about 5 years the dynamic was stale and closed. They desperately needed the shake up of switching classes around but the Head wouldn't hear of it. Many of us who had kids in the class actively encouraged extra-curricular away from school, not going to the Brownies held in school with all the same girls but dancing, drama, gymnastics on the other side of town.

Children need to be supported to develop friendships with people they did not know perviously and step out of their comfort zone. It's what creates confident and well-adjusted adults.

My kids school do it every year. I like it - they get to meet lots more children and you can aim ti get rid of whichever little shit is causing all the behaviour problems in the classroom (until you get a different one!) The children are asked to write a list of four kids they’d like to stay with and are guaranteed 1. In reality though they tend to keep smaller friend groups together unless there’s an issue.

My DC’s school does it and at first I wasn’t in favour (they joined in Y2), he had finally made a friend and was split up from said friend. But actually I am so pleased they did, the friend was quite intense (doesn’t have any other friends) and this allowed my DC to develop more friendships, be invited to parties, be more settled in school.
we still have regular play dates with initial friend, and they do see each other in school, but my DC has gained so much from not just being with one friend.
i went with the same people all the way from Reception to A-Levels. I was so bored of the same friends, year after year, there was nowhere to go..

My DC's school mix for the first and only time going into year 3. I think that's a good time to do it as they will have had the stability of the same peer group in infants, and friendships will be well established - so if kids aren't put in the same class with their friends they will still see them at playtime and lunchtime so can keep those bonds going while mixing with new peers.

Having said that I went to a small school with only one class per year group, and while I am not in touch with anyone from my primary school, not being mixed each year didn't do me any harm and I was fine when I went to secondary school and beyond.

Friendships often evolve within a class even without splitting and some friendships manage to exist through the split.

I don't see why it should be default but am more than happy for class mixing where needed.

I think if you started a thread called, “do you always feel like an outsider and did you have the same primary class all through?” you’d find loads of yes/yes replies.

It’s just how a lot of us are.

My class never changed at primary and barely at secondary.

I think it’s quite possible you could have had one class and felt increasingly left out as that group grew closer.

In my own children and their peer groups, I’ve seen totally new and unexpected long term friendship develop from class switches, and children in separate classes spending the whole year seeing their best friend after school in homes. Also seen one year “friendships of convenience” - the year my son was a Harry Potter fan as he had no friends in his class and to this day (Y12) remembers Y4 as his Pretending to Like HP year! He’s still not read any and only watched the first film.

It’s unlikely that through bad luck, you got a change that actively was a fuck up EVERY year - as you describe. More likely that you weren’t going to fit perfectly in any of the groups. Not because there’s anything wrong with you, but because some people fit well with less people than others. Each change was a chance to find the right people, and your primary just wasn’t big enough to find that best match. In which case, it can be better to have multiple chances that might have paid off than one set class all the way that never gave you more chances.

Some of us are just more discerning than others 😉

I've read everything on Mumsnet now 🤦

My children are in a school that mixes up the 2 classes (60 children) every year. I don’t know any parent or child who has had a problem with it. In fact I rather like that they mix them up, my child get to know new people and they still see their friends in the other class at playtime.

DD's primary made only one move between the three classes in the whole time they were there, and that was because the parent really pushed.

I think it was a mistake - socially, there were some kids who would have benefitted from a shuffle because they had not found a real friendship group in their own class (although there were some cross-class friendship groups). There was a gender imbalance which arose in two of the classes - the same way, so there was a limit to how much they could improve things, but they could have improved that a little. Academically, one class was much stronger than the others - over half the top maths set were from the same class, so they could have evened that up too.

Until not long before, they had had mixed year group (1/2, 3/4, 5/6) classes, so shuffling every year - it is the easiest way to manage the curriculum with year groups of 45 or 75. I'm guessing they were so relieved to be shot of that arrangement that they didn't realise that less frequent shuffling might be helpful.

I think most schools do their best with shuffling the classes, but with the best will in the world they are probably not always going to predict correctly how the children will react. Sometimes there will also be conflicting interests - such as where there is a stifling friendship and they want to give the dominated child a chance to develop other friendships.

The thing is, I DID make friends in most (albeit not all) years, just those friendships never lasted outside of classes. I don't recall opportunities to socialise with other classes - yes 15 min breaks morning and afternoon (if the weather was dry, else it was spent in the classroom with classmates) but lunch was taken in class groups too.

I guess I've always felt that friendships are destined not to last outside of the "activity" where I've met people as that's been my experience throughout my life. Cause or effect, I don't know!!

It's an unpopular view currently, but I agree with you.

My dc were at a large juniors that mixed them up every year.
Before the move they had to write down 10 people from their form they were happy to be with. So 1/3 of their form. Let's be honest, most people probably had maximum of 5 they would really want to be with, about 5 they really didn't want to be with, and about 20 they were fairly indifferent.
Even with that number one of mine twice (out of 3 time mixed up) was with no one she'd asked to be with-and some she'd asked for had asked for her too - the teacher confirmed it, and said there was no problems with them being together, just "we can't always fix it so everyone gets what they want".

They'd tell you cheerfully that it didn't matter because they could still play together whenever they want to.
Except PE/school trips, even the residential, they weren't allowed to mix across forms, so things with partners they were separated. And break times were staggered, so they didn't always share a break and lunch times they went into lunch in forms, so a good proportion of lunch time they were queueing up/in lunch or their friend was.

And what happened was when they were sorting out the forms around Easter time, those who were loud and had obvious friends were put together and those who were quieter and less noticeable weren't.
So typically those who found making friends easy, and were loud about friendships, stayed with friends, but those who found it harder were split from any friends they'd made.
By year 5 some of them had given up hope of making friends because they felt that there was no point, because they'd be split up again. The confident ones just added more confident ones to their group.
It had the opposite effect to what you'd want.

Because they could only request children from their form, once they were split from their friend, there was no way of requesting they were together again.

I'm not against the idea of mixing when the year generally benefits from it, like where there are very different form make-ups, but I don't think doing it every year whatever is detrimental to forming relationships.

We have constant mixing and shuffling of people throughout life. Children will get used to it.

My dd Is in mixed groups and it works so well. She friendly with everyone and enjoy s meeting new people and keeping old. I explained mummy just just have one friend but lots and like everyone else in the school we encouraging this. One child seems to have best friend but lots of friends which I think it better. Sorry you had such a bad time at school

My daughter is on the asd pathway and she really struggles with the moving around of kids and classes each year.
This year she's been split from her only friend 😩

Personally I think it's more healthy to split up so that they get used to different people and don't become over-reliant on a very small number of "friends".

When I was at primary, there were 9 classes, so you "jumped" a class in infants and again in juniors, so your "friend circle" was spread over 3 different years. My son's primary had 10 classes, so they jumped once in infants and twice in juniors. I was fine with that, son was fine with that, we made loads of friends across different years and here were far fewer "cliques".

DS was the only child from his primary school in his secondary school form, and we were very worried, but it was absolutely fine. Lots of others were the same (it had a very large catchment area fed into it from around 20 primaries!), so they all mixed together well (again, few fixed friendships from the same primary in the same class).

I think throwing lots of people without "friends" in together actually works better as there's no "baggage" from the previous year, and by that I mean "good" baggage in terms of friends nor "bad" baggage in terms of bullying etc.

Having to make new friends, meet new people, work with new people, etc builds resilience, and that's a very good thing.

I can see where you are coming from, but on the other hand, my dd's school managed not only to put her bully in the same class as her for three years on the trot, but also put them in small dorms together on two different residential school trips, despite us repeatedly asking them not to do so.

My dc went to a five form entry primary and the classes were mixed every year. Nobody seemed to take any notice whatsoever of who went where.

My dc are confident and happy older teens who are sociable. They have friends and can make friends.

My primary never mixed classes. I found it hard to make friends in secondary school because I had limited experience of making new friends so it swings both ways.

I’m similar to you OP in that I have always been a shy, quiet, anxious type and add to that I looked different and my parents were from outside the area so I sounded “posh” to the other kids.

My mum kept moving me to different primary schools for petty reasons like she thought a teacher had slighted her, so I went to three different primary schools and I always did and still do find it difficult to make friends and sustain friendships and like you would have one intense friendship at a time and to be honest I don’t think I’ll ever forgive her for it, I can remember being very upset about being bullied as a teenager and saying “I’ve got no friends” and my mum saying “what do you want friends for, you don’t need friends”.

I think therapy could be helpful. That level of memory about primary school classes/friendships is not healthy and quite unusual. I agree that mixing things up is good for kids and that intense friendships rarely are. I don’t think this has caused your MH issues/adult anxiety, I think whatever underlies these things has led to you overanalysing childhood happenings and trying to find a reason for how you are now. I don’t think it’s class mixing at primary and I think therapy might help you find out the underlying reasons for your current anxieties. I’m Uber anxious too and there are really good historical/family reasons why, therapy can be scary but I hope you do it and find some peace.

Regularly mixing up class groups is rarely in the best interests of the children. It’s about the convenience of the school and teachers. In my experience they want to have a similarly able group of kids together to make teaching the content easier. Or they want to break up certain friendships to make the class easier to ‘control’. The friendships of more mature or quieter children are usually just collateral damage. My poor brother was a particularly calm, easygoing kid and every year he was sat next to an extremely disruptive child in the seating plan.

Some children have a tendency to become extremely and obsessively attached to their friends. They can become stifling and uncomfortable for the other child.
There are so many reasons why it’s a good idea for schools who have the opportunity to mix up their classes.

We had same last year. After a really challenging few months he has made another friend thankfully who is in his class this year.

For me there are children who are fine with mixing classes and presumably would be fine with not because they have an ability to socialise/make friends. Then there are those for whom it's a massive struggle every year. And they are given no consideration whatsoever. Just told it's good for them.

I rather like the way my children's school does it. Two classes per year. Children stay in the same classes from Reception to Year 4, based on birthdate (so all the older kids together, younger kids likewise). Then they mix the classes round for Y5 and Y6 so they can get to know more people before they're all flung into the vast melting pot of secondary school.