Email sent by colleagues addressed to 'Gents'

[funkymonkey55]

AIBU to be annoyed by a male colleague starting an email chain to other male colleagues where he addresses them as "Gents" and then he loops me in a few days later - when the actions around the original email topic (gathering information together) need to be picked up (by me of course!)?

It annoys me because I feel 1) I should have been cc'd in the first instance, 2) Isn't starting an email chain where you know females will have to be cc'd in / included with the phrase Gents a little rude?

I don't know if I am being a bit overly sensitive.

I often start work emails to all women as Dear Ladies 🤮🤮🤮 please don't.

100%. Pull it up every time. Doesn't have to be confrontational. A neutral, brief reminder is all you need.

Dont give the bloke any benefit (unless he is new since last year).

One of the tasks you were given by your manager (not MrG) at the start of the year was collecting the data by X date.
MrG knows that or should know it as you were responsible last year.
MrG was given his list.

MrG has options
A) contact you and offer to do the whole job.
B) contact your shared manager and ask he move the responibility from you to MrG
C) take over the job without the responsibility if things go wrong.
D) decide he is now in charge of your workflow and has the ability to give (and be seen to give) you instructions.

His actions put him between C and D

He has disruped the flow of information so if things are missed in the email chain you "should have known" because of a CC list you may or may not be on.

Thats why CC's are watching other peoples work TO's are for the workers.

@IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads

Completely agree.

I did a similar thing in my early days - I now start group emails with 'Hi everyone'

Also, I appreciated someone pointing this out to me. Like me, they could be blissfully unaware. It was done in a quiet, well-meaning way, 1 to 1, not in a goady, show someone else up manner.

Hear hear!

Absolutely agog at some of these responses suggesting the Op is unreasonable!

YANBU- it’s clear that you were an afterthought. there is a good amount of evidence that this was impacted as Institutional sexism.

Tbh my mum often uses the term ‘gents’ as a way of meaning ‘all’ or ‘us’ (we are a 3:1 female to male Household). However I would not use this in a professional setting and does come across like a micro aggressions in Ops context.

I do however use the term ‘guys’ often as I believe that, in this context, the word has widely evolved to mean ‘group’ and is understood by a vast majority of people.

Unless I've missed something, we don't know the specifics of what the emails were about. There may have been perfectly good reasons why the original message only went to specific individuals, who happened to be male. For example, in a marketing team, where the initial discussion related to an account handled by those male colleagues and the significance of some aspect of particular relevance to OP wasn't initially appreciated. There are any number of reasons why OP might not have been included, other than her sex.

Conversely, it may be the case that OP's exclusion from the initial discussion does betray sexist attitudes that need to be challenged. But the problem would be that the message was only sent to men, not that those men were addressed as "gents".

No. Casual, daily sexism.

It does matter. And it should be challenged. Every time.

100% this.

Indeed

If you're ever unsure, try substituting for 'Hello white people' or Hello straight people' and if that sounds wrong, it's a good indication that 'Hello Gents' is too.

Plus the OP wasn't included in the first email, because they weren't interested in hearing her input into the project.

YANBU. In a previous job I was the only woman in my department and a female colleague addressed an email to the department to 'Gents'. I'd only known and worked with her for a dozen or so years, so it felt very unpleasant. When I replied to her with a '?' (or something similar), I got a long reply about how hard done by/discriminated against she was. And she addressed subsequent emails to 'Gents and Lady', which felt even worse, in a 'you really don't belong here' sort of way.
As is the way with these things, I left the company and she got promoted.

I'd be so tempted to do this. 😂

If it upsets you, say something to him - or jokingly warn him he's misgendered you and there will be repercussions (add "not really")

If you wanted to you could say "Mike I've also noticed you use gents at the start of all your emails. It's really old fashioned you know. You should think about updating your language"

⬆This is probably more sensible than my suggestion

Honestly - this "Gents" business wouldn't have bothered me, but I would have been annoyed if work had landed on me unexpectedly when it was time sensitive.

@funkymonkey55

don’t give him the benefit of the doubt. Think about it this way, he has thought about and checked the sex of everyone he is emailing, then used ‘gents’. You have started this work before so it is a deliberate omission not to include you.

if I mail a group of people I just use ‘team’ as you assume it’s mixed sex.

Assume a) he’s a sexist chancer b) he is trying to undermine you.

Spent 20 years in banking. I know am arsehole when he gives himself away

It's downright ignorant especially when you're the one expected to do the leg work.

Guys that do that are dinosaurs and the sooner they piss off/retire the better.

Why do they need to acknowledge that they are all 'Gents'? When you start looking at what's underneath it, is there a bit of croneyism going on there?

It doesn't sit well with me for the workplace. I'd feel the same about 'Ladies', but not to quite the same extent because women are the ones most discriminated against in the workplace. It's not really OK to start an email in a way which is celebrating the exclusion of women.

Whoa!!! I cannot wrap my head around that. And the menz rewarded her behaviour. Awesome

OP, definitely call out the 'gents' address in person or over the phone. If it happens again, I'd reply all with something like, "as we discussed Mr G, not everyone in the team is male?".

The more worrying thing that probably does need tackling in a more formal way is what he was trying to achieve in the first place. Do you have any allies at work you could discuss this with? Are other female team members feeling like you? Nipping this type of high handed and self serving behaviour in the bud, like right now, would be my priority. I'd also keep track of the stuff your boss is dropping, like the pay issue. Start keeping a log of anything like that, and/or any disparity in how he treats his team. HR love a log

The issue is that you weren't copied into an email you should have been copied into. That might be deliberate or an oversight and should be talked as it's own thing. If it's a one-off I'd assume oversight, point it out nicely to the sender and move on with my life.

There is no issue with addressing a group of men (when there are no ladies 'present' in the email) as 'Gents', which is what the sender did.

If you were one of my staff with that sort of attitude, I wouldn’t see you as a team player but as someone to be moved sideways as quickly as possible.

... and if you verbalised this in my earshot at work I would think differently of you.

The 'Gents' term wouldn't bother me at all. Leaving me out of the original email would bother me more, but that's me.

If you have a genuine problem with the word Gents then just say that in plain English. 'Mike, I have a problem with you using the word Gents, can you not do that going forward' Don't go with the passive aggressive talk about being 'old fashioned' or asking him to 'update his language'

I think that given that the original email was to a bunch of men, then Gents is fine. You were cc'd in later, but the original email wasn't addressed to you.

Whether you should have been included in the original email is a separate matter, and if you're going to complain then that's what I'd be focussing on. You can complain about being called a Gent when it starts happening

There is an issue though.

The person who has sent that email has looked at each person they are sending it to and realised that they are all male and though 'Oh, isn't that nice, I can label us all as 'Gents'! We're all Gents together! ho ho!'

That's fucking awful - it's really, really old fashioned and has no place in the workplace.

StellaLaBella is right, keep a record of anything like this. Do you have HR? Are there more senior colleagues who might be on your side?

This would also be my assumption.

Deliberately missing you out due to your sex. Cc’ing you when you usually start off these emails. Not very gentlemanly behaviour, is it?

YANBU. You're getting quite odd responses here
The "Gents" isnn't the issue, it's said Gents being a closed club that you're not given access to although you need the information just as much as they do.
Graciously allowing access to information to the non Gents several days later is ridiculous.
Report the idiot.