Families are shit here?

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That's it really

Nobody helps each other, siblings view siblings as unimportant and "not part of their life" mothers watch their offspring struggle.

That's it really.

I finally understand why old people get put in a care home.

I think that’s a big generalisation, not all families are estranged.

It's not everyone, but seems quite prevalent on here. There have been a few posts recently about non contact or low contact with siblings and mothers.
I don't know anyone in real life like this.

One of the things I like about mn is that it is a space where we can get away from the widespread misogynistic narrative that women must be self-sacrificing and prioritise other about themselves.

I don't consider my family it be "shit", but not am I obliged to sacrifice my career or personal wellbeing for anyone I don't choose to.

If mothers are watching their offspring struggle, what are the fathers doing ?

Where’s here? On Mumsnet? A particular geographic location?

Many many families are close OP. I applaud the people who don't stretch themselves thin out of some sort of family obligation though. Toxic people should always reap what they sow. That includes mothers/fathers and siblings.

I think there’s a move away from having to be nice to people and put up with them just because they’re related to you. And that’s a good thing. But it doesn’t mean no one cares about family in general or the concept of it.

What do you mean by 'here' - UK? Mumsnet? the area where you live?

It sounds like a big generalisation wherever you are referring to

I would kinda have to agree with this. Not all families are created equal. I am estranged from all my family. After year's of trying I finally stopped. No contact since. Although I know objectively it's for the best owing to dysfunction and abuse it still leaves a deep seated pain that I will forever be alone in this capacity. My husbands family are somewhat better but not close. His parents live close but are emotionally unavailable. It does hurt when I hear or see other families as it's just a reminder of how alone I am and everything falls on me. I have no backup.

Actually yes I do know what you mean . Having been dropped by very close family so easily like a stone . You think why did I bother basically!

Yep and it shit, I have two estranged brothers and low contact with parents so my daughter has never had the big family events and Christmas, just me and her, I hope she marries into a huge big loving noisy family.

Do you mean in the UK? That’s a huge generalisation.
I don’t personally know anybody who is no-contact with immediate family members, though I think it’s good when people do go no-contact with people who bring nothing good into their lives. And a lot of people just don’t have the resources to care for elderly parents when they have to continue working full-time so late in life with the cost of everything so care homes are needed.
Sure, some countries/cultures are incredibly generous with families and everyone living together, sharing childcare/elderly care etc. But sometimes that can also be toxic. I used to work with a couple of women from other countries who have been forced to give 90% of their wages to family and work non-stop having no life for themselves because their parents demanded it/it was expected of them.

I think the OP is talking about Mumsnet as I recognise the threads she's talking about.

Obviously on a forum like this people will be posting about things they're having difficulties with so it'll be mostly negative.

So if not ‘here’ OP which country do you think we should be like? I dare you to find one where the burden of care for elderly family isn’t always on women, either daughters or daughters in law. I’ll wait.

I have noticed amongst my own friendship group that people are less inclined to put up with issues just because they are family
I am close with my parents but havent spoken to my brother for years - we have no relationship and I am happy with that
My DH is close to his parents but has no relationship with his brothers and his brother dont speak to each other either. He hasnt seen either of them for 14 - 15 years

Within my immediate family, both my grown up DC are extremely close and we all get on great

You’ve clearly never experienced a parent with dementia. It’s a 24/7 job you literally cannot do anything else whilst caring for them, even going to the toilet is difficult.
Would you expect your child to sacrifice their life for you or would you prefer them to put you in a home where trained people can care for you?

Well, quite a lot of people want to come ‘here’ from places with stronger families that you’d approved of OP.

Quite a lot of people.

I think it’s more common that most people who come from ‘normal’ (as in who love and care for each other which is a basic human need) families realise. I don’t think it’s anything new though just that now people actually talk it about through the medium of chat forums which is good as these families are so damaging and people carry a lot of misplaced shame and guilt that their families don’t love them.

My entire family cut me and my DC off completely just for challenging my narcissistic mother’s behaviour. I thought we were a ‘normal’ loving family but was in denial. I’m still in shock 10 years later and it does make me feel better that it’s not just me!

Following on with your generalisations comment

The fathers have all been booted after their mum was convinced to leave from the red flag brigade on MN.

Seriously though, I have noticed this too. You go abroad to Asia, even Spain, and it's ALL family... but conversely, I'd also hate for the majority of my birthing to be down to having someone to look after my parents when they're older...

I completely understand cutting off toxic family members. Nobody should have to take disrespect and toxic behaviour off anyone. I mean in general families you often witness a lack of warmth and everything is "me me me" and "nobody asked you"

I don't believe grandparents should be childminders out of obligation or expectation but I think not to offer a few hours babysitting once every few months or begrudge being asked a favour which doesn't inconvenience you is just weird.

I read that one mothers parent wouldn't even go get nappies for her own daughter? How sad is this.

I know children can take the piss and expect so much but generally there is a real coldness between families here (in the Uk and other countries like USA, west Europe)

Not everyone is blessed with loving families. It's good that those who aren't are empowered to walk away rather than suffocate in the FOG.

I think that's an exception obviously And some people do want to go into care homes for community reasons, social etc

But I've worked in a care home many many many years ago and often spoke to elderly women and MEN that felt slighted their children wanted rid of them.

A lot of people in collectivist societies are crippled by the weight of expectation placed upon them, and it is overwhelmingly women that are expected to sacrifice all in the name of ‘family’.

Personally I’m glad to live in societies where individuals are free to make their own choices.

My mum has just come out of hospital, both my brothers came up to care for her, one brother’s gf of a year sat with her for hours while he was sorting practical things. I live the closest and have been juggling things around a baby and young child, I’ll step in when brothers go home. We love her, she’s supportive and wonderful and no one can do too much for her.

My husband’s family are horrible and no one wants to be around them.

People reap what they sew. No one is owed support by simple virtue of sharing genes.

My dad got "put in a care home" because he had severe Alzheimer's and my mum couldn't be his carer any more.

But judge away if you want.