Privacy After Death

[DropCloths]

DFIL died last year and DH has been sorting through his papers.

One file was labelled "private" and I was slightly surprised that DH went through it as he had all the others- it contained some slightly personal medical things and some personal diaries from when DFIL had counselling. Nothing earth-shattering but definitely the kind of thing that (in life) you'd think of as private and not want others to read without your permission.

I'm not really looking for views on DH's decision to read it- his father, his decision. (I haven't read it). But it has made me think more broadly about privacy after death. I have all sorts of things I wouldn't want people to read after I am gone- again, nothing earth-shattering but things like diaries where I've written very personal things, or times when I've been letting off steam but what I've written doesn't represent an accurate reflection of my feelings over all (eg I wrote a diary when DC were small where I said a lot about the difficulties of adjusting to motherhood. I absolutely loved being with my DC when they were little but if you only read the diaries you wouldn't get that impression and reading the diaries might be very hurtful and misleading for DC).

Would you treat diaries etc after someone has died as private, as they are in life? Would you chuck them away without reading or would you read them? Are you planning to chuck any of your own private papers away to avoid loved ones seeing them after your death, or does it not bother you?

Perhaps everyone needs to be more explicit than just writing "private". Perhaps "private - immediate family's eyes only", "private - please pass straight to solicitor", "private - please destroy without opening" would mean that people know exactly what to do with such folders.

Burn them would be my suggestion

Earlier this year I had a big clear-out (as we are having renovation work done in the house) and uppermost in my mind as I hesitated over whether to keep or throw away certain items was the thought "Would I want our DDs to read this?" It was the motivating factor to destroy a great many letters, even though I'm only 63 and do not expect to die for some time!

When a friends grandfather died he left a pile of letters that were written between himself and his wife before they married.

Everyone in the family knew of these letters, but neither he nor his late wife ever showed the slightest inclination to share them with any of their family.

His wife predeceased him. When he died the family chose to place the pile of letters, unread, in his coffin and they were buried with him.

His family took the view that, as neither had shared the letters in life, they would not wish the contents shared after death so chose to bury the letters with him. I thought this was lovely and very respectful.

“Private - destroy without opening” is completely pointless, just bloody destroy it yourself! I wouldn’t be able to resist opening something with that label!

I like the idea of this.

And then in the "scarred for life" box a bit of paper on top saying "Really?? Are you sure?!", then maybe another one underneath saying "Well, you can't say I didn't warn you!"

If you don't want other people reading things, then just destroy them yourself especially if you think it's going to be painful to them. I never understand why people leave written documentation around if they are horrified at the prospect of someone reading it. If you want to process things through writing, then create a password-protected document and make sure you never share the password.

Agree with PPs saying get rid of your private shit before you reach an age where they could be problematic to those around you

I have kept a diary for years and I honestly don't care who reads them after I am gone. Everything I have written I have written with pure honestly especially about my own mistakes and failings. They are my stories and my truths.

You own everything that happened to you. Tell your stories. If people wanted you to write warmly about them, they should have behaved better.

Put them in a box, labelled with where they came from and put it somewhere safe. Other relatives may want to read them after you're gone yourself.

This ^

I cleared out a lot of stuff back in 2015 that I knew would hurt my dc if they came across and wasn't needed - so I destroyed the documents/records. Again in 2020 I had a clear out during covid19 lockdowns and destroyed things that were not needed, diaries etc of mine from a painful time.

I can't help thinking of Anais Nin who started writing a diary as a child and continued throughout her life: At one time, she kept two sets of diaries, one that she left lying around so her husband Hugo could read it, and another where she shagged Henry Miller and a few other men and fancied a few women...

In her fifties, she'd become a bi-coastal bigamist so she had one diary at home with her first husband, Hugo, in New York, another set of diaries with her other husband, Rupert, in Los Angeles. A third set which is kept in a bank vault.

In the late 1960s, she sat down and decided to rewrite her diaries (using all three) with a view to publication creating a 4th version and one where she comes over as bloody fantastic! They were a literary success and she became famous!

After she died, one husband learned of the other, and the LA husband, Rupert, decided to publish the unexpurgated versions which publicly revealed that she'd shagged everyone, including her own dad!

I used to be a member of a church and our very esteemed, elderly widowed church warden died. he entrusted the other church warden - his friend- to deal with his private affairs which turned out included sex toys and gay pornography.

The other church warden was agog and told us all. With a very great deal of relish.

It made me realise that anything truly private ought to be destroyed- and it made me realise the kind of person the other church warden was- a despicable individual.

I used to keep diaries where I detailed my innermost thoughts. I destroyed them. I now only keep things I feel it is possible for others with curious minds can see and I will not feel ashamed.

It is sad that it is like this.

So yes- if i received papers marked private I would not read them.

When my grandmother died, I came across a box of ' personal ' papers and diaries. These included five A4 size exercise books in which she had written her life story.
I made a cuppa and sat down for a good read.
It was eye popping. No one even knew she had been married four times, twice to the same man!
I have to admit, she was elevated her to goddess like levels in my eyes by the time I'd finished reading everything.

Not wanting to derail, but, a very recent problem has hit my DSis. Not really resolved and doubt it will be now. Her DH died suddenly in April this year. His Iphone had retinal recognition as a security feature. Although it was his phone and he owned it, he used it a lot for work and it may have held essential details pertaining to Business stuff. I know she asked Apple to help but they said they wouldn't be able to - despite her proving she was next of kin and death certificate made it clear that the loss was sudden ( Acute Myocardial Infarction. Heart Attack). They aren't in UK, and live where he worked in Asia. Short of holding the phone to his eye in the mortuary which of course she didn't do, I don't think now that there is any way of unlocking the phone. I don't think she is seriously concerned that there is anything on the phone that is needed, although he did keep a lot of financial records on there, and he used his 'notes' app a lot for reminders of stuff to do. Still, it is a source of frustration and something I'm not sure anyone would think about in the normal course of things. The phone is now gathering dust, cant be unlocked so cant be used. Has anyone experienced similar? Thoughts welcome.

But not everyone has the opportunity to prepare for death! People keep things because they themselves may want to look at them again in future. People also die in accidents or of sudden heart attacks etc.

My friend found some highly detailed highly personal letters from her dad to her mum when clearing out her parents' house after her dad's death. At that time they were 18 years olds living in different cities so you can imagine the kind of thing. She said she was absolutely horrified and wished shed never found them. She felt it altered the way she felt about her parents, not for the better!

The weirdest thing is that they'd long been divorced so she wasn't sure why no one had binned them long ago, perhaps long forgotten.

I think having a file marked 'private, burn in event of my death' would make it absolutely clear you didn't ever want anyone looking at those things, after death I guess it's up to your loved ones if they comply! I probably would have looked in the file too as your DH did in case any of it was e.g. important financial papers that DFIL didn't want anyone looking at when alive but were important to see now he's gone.

Before the 'computer age' this was bound to happen unless you had a trusted person that ran to your house and destroyed all your diaries, letters, and things you didn't want others to see. Didn't one of Queen Victoria's daughters do that after her death?

But now, there are ways to store all that in a password protected file. There are even some systems/apps in which the password is 'unretrievable', even by the 'owner' and even after death. DH had a locked file (we use Apple) and forgot the password. He contacted Apple and was told that even they couldn't access the file nor retrieve the password. Luckily, it wasn't anything I didn't have stored on my laptop so the documents weren't lost.

If I was keeping sensitive diaries or documents I didn't want seen after my death I'd store them in a secure and locked electronic file. And I'd destroy the originals myself.

As far as would I read such documents if I ran across them after someone's death? Yes, I would. Whether or not I'd 'disseminate' them and to whom would be a different matter.

Do it this weekend, then. Go through all your embarrassing teenage diaries, your terrible photos and dispose of them you'd hate the idea of someone else reading/ seeing. Check the documents on your computer and cloud storage and remove the incoherent rants, the awful poetry, the risque fan fiction etc. And keep doing it as you go along. This needs to be a part of your life admin.

I thinhk most people would destroy what they didn't want people to read.
There is no data protection or personal privacy right once you are dead (although a contract could give some rights after death in a very few cases and some laws might protect special cases).

I have my grandparents' love letters from 1916 (they are not all explicit though - talk about you "lovely darling" and things like that) and I am very glad my father saved them.

I saw the funny side of the Polaroids my mum late had saved and my dad had forgotten about. We had a good laugh about them when I handed them to him and asked what to do with them. Anything else deemed private that my darling mum had left behind he had obviously cleared away before we sorted through everything else.

You’re not listening. I said that people keep things because they may want to look at them again themselves. So destroying “just in case” is not the solution.

I regard diaries as deeply personal and am not comfortable with reading the private thoughts of someone known to me, even if they are dead.

That. I wouldn't dream of reading a loved one's diaries after their death unless they'd expressly said in life, that I should. And even then I'd feel really awkward about it.

But an online document would allow you to look at them again. It's not as nice as a hand-written, leather notebook, I know, but the risks of people finding and reading one's diaries are very high - I'm not just talking about after death, I'm talking in general. Maybe it's because my mother read my diaries when I was a teenager, but I'm pretty careful now not to write and leave around anything if I don't want others to see what I'm saying.

Okay then, there is no solution for you. Jolly good.