Psychopath

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I've just learnt apparently one per cent of the population is a psychopath.
But generally not in the film way (e.g American Psycho) but in an actual mental health way (e.g high impulsivity/low boredom threshold/egocentric/superficially charming/liars).
There's the Hare Checklist which I've got really into.
But what it boils down is that they don't seem to feel emotions.
I can't comprehend this - I get angry and sad and anxious and all the emotions - and am fascinated. One per seems huge.
Does anyone think they know a psychopath? Genuinely? This isn't an AIBU BTW. I'm honestly just really interested.

@Guiltridden12345 Yes there's a possibility I suppose problem is like with me unless manage to get a diagnosis will never know. Mine there were good times but looking back the majority was manipulation but it was eventually relentless and turned abusive. Again not every day consistently just an inability to live peacefully and they created conflict and chaos that all revolved around themselves.

There was never anything wrong with them, it was always other people, me or the world in general everything and everyone was out for them. In reality it didn't exist and they were the one causing the problems and as a result being abusive but they refuse to see it. So much so they on multiple occasions and now rewrote their entire past and aligned events to fit that story and everything that comes is turned into the are the victim.

This is exactly what I meant, thank you.

I enjoy my job. I enjoy doing it well. I enjoy setting myself goals and achieving goals set within my profession. I’m a perfectionist and a high achiever; this aligns perfectly with the job I do and so everyone is happy. Do I understand the implication of certain actions or non actions from an empathetic perspective? Yes I do; I can fully assess how something might make someone feel and the consequences of this. As I said upthread, lacking empathy does not mean I enjoy seeing others hurt, and I certainly don’t want to be the cause of that.

I do think that this perspective is very difficult to understand if you’re a very empathetic person: the very idea that some of us aren’t driven by caring and have other intrinsic motives such as self-satisfaction or the desire to be the best must be mind-bending to some - which is a perfect irony on this thread I think; empaths unable to empathise

I can understand that point of view, it makes sense to me. Although you would expect empathy I'm not at all phased by the possibility that there is none because it makes sense, if that even makes any sense.

For me I find it easier to communicate to say a consultant that is this way, whether it's a lack of empathy or just their patient. Straight and to the point without any fluff. Whereas the few who were saying more animated or talked about things and beat around the bush, I'm confused and want to just remove the fluff or noise.

I'm assuming I am Autistic but I can relate to that way of thinking it's, I dunno, more logical I guess. As I said previously I don't feel things the same way as others I am in one state of existence continuously, I don't show joy or happiness nor can I get animated about anything really but I can to a degree adjust my expressions to show some form of it without actually feeling it myself.

I can empathise with others I can feel their struggles whilst simultaneously not actually caring for them. Almost as if I become them but things I can relate to. The only thing I do feel is sadness and loneliness and I'm still that one level of existence although I do at points cry but it's more of a necessity, a release then it's over and I return to my default state.

Old people I find fascinating, their wisdom and experiences and I enjoy looking at pictures of when they were younger. I can again almost become them and run through scenarios of what it was like for them at those moments I'm looking at in a photo. Similarly, historical photos I can do the same and try to imagine their lives or struggles.

Do you feel anything in terms of sadness or loss for things that mean something to you? For example, if you were the best at your job but you lost it from no fault of your own would that spur anything within emotional wise?

I definitely feel sadness and loss. I’m fortunate really to never have experienced real loss, but it would definitely hurt. I’d say anger is the emotion I probably feel most in terms of negative things that happen; I have a real sense that I’d probably go to lengths others wouldn’t, and although I’ve worked hard to rewire my brain to temper any impulsivity, it is there and I think thank goodness for my husband because I have a real tendency to light the petrol bomb and throw it (to speak metaphorically), and he is good at rationalising why I shouldn’t act impulsively and the negative consequences.

Mostly I’d say I tend to feel things are an inconvenience and that is annoying to me. I like efficiency and calm order. I find people’s need to process and recover from what I see as minor events intensely irritating and think a lot of the time they’re their own worst enemy overthinking things. I honestly think I’m more content than a lot of people for not really giving a shit about most things

@thelinkisdead That's interesting and makes sense.

I never really felt loss until now with the children and I have at times nose dived into sadness. Most people so far have said they can see I'm not okay but are also surprised I haven't reacted in anger like most men would. I do feel anger over the situation at times, intense anger but I don't think it is required and would be of no use and if anything would make me exactly what I am being accused of. It takes a lot to get me angry to the point I express it, I have a very long fuse I'm very thick skinned but when I do I go nuclear but I can still be in control and know when to stop and return to my level.

That's funny that was kind of my role in my relationship. I was essentially their conscience or moral compass as they seemingly didn't have one. I would have to add rationality to situations to bring the issue at hand into context or assist in seeing the consequences should they act in a certain way because they were highly emotional and often volatile or saw red. Ultimately, in the end they were uncontrollable and here we are.

Anger, frustration and boredom. While I can be happy I find that it wears off quickly because one the big three mentioned above takes over again.
I am really wondering how some of the others here manage to maintain relationships because that’s something I really struggle with. Maybe women do have better self control here.

I can empathise a lot with this. I find people in general don’t meet my high standards so I tire of them after a while. There are exceptions to this and I do have meaningful relationships, but generally only if someone is intellectually on my level - although they don’t have to be similar in any way. I’m quite extroverted and get on with everyone superficially and I do enjoy social situations a lot so I think most people would be surprised to know the real me

Indeed. I find most people stupid, especially because they are so needy and overcomplicate everything. I consider myself lucky not having to deal with their problems but they still irritate me.
Do also find that lots of people are more than happy to hand over control to you? Also control or them.

Ok psychopaths, is there anything cognitive you do struggle with? I’m seeing you both tending to frame psychopathy as a kind of hyper-intelligence, like if everyone just cut out the emotional noise they’d be able to think properly for a change. I kind of get it. Are you all high achieving professionally? And I’m wondering if you notice that other people can do/think in ways that you can’t? Do any of you do/enjoy anything creative? coming at this question from the other direction, do you ever get stuck on a loop mentally?

Ok so firstly I deffo wouldn’t diagnose myself with psychopathy. I don’t fit quite a few of the Hare checklist (delinquency, poor behaviour control, lacking in long term goals to name just a few); I score highly on the personality side rather than the behaviour side of that makes sense?

I’ve noticed I think in ways others don’t rather than the other way round: I tend to be very good at problem solving - particularly in situations which require high emotional intelligence. I’m aware of all emotions and can read people extremely well - I just don’t feel what they feel most of the time. This means I have to gauge how a ‘normal’ person would react to scenarios, otherwise I can come across as cold.

My processing is 99th percentile - this covers language and verbal reasoning.

Professionally I’m high achieving. I love my job and am very good in the particular field I’ve chosen within my profession. My aim is to climb as high as I possibly can. What’s hindered me is that I’ve had a family and we’ve focused on my husband’s career whilst the children were small, but I’m now at a point where I’m climbing again, and I don’t resent it. I’m also a perfectionist outside of work, although as parents we’re always checking ourselves that we don’t pass this onto our children in a negative way. I find parenting more difficult than work as children are a less predictable quantity, but I enjoy it in a different way.

I’m not hugely creative in terms of art etc but I enjoy fashion, interior projects and I love reading. I’d say I’m pretty typical in terms of my interests!

the link that’s fascinates me. What hills me back at work is low self esteem, worrying how I come across, thinking others are better yadda yadda how dull

do you feel none of that applies to you? It must be refreshing!

Oh no definitely not. I genuinely think I’m great. I’m pretty good at self reflection though and I’m under no illusion that I’m perfect: I’m cold and heartless so I work hard to make sure I don’t upset people; I have a tendency to be very impulsive and make silly mistakes so I force myself to read things carefully. If something goes wrong I question my role in that and what I could have done better. But overall no, I’ve never had low self esteem. I also really don’t care what other people think so my sense of superiority is purely to do with how I perceive myself.

One thing I do struggle with is you know in conversation when someone asks you about yourself or something personal? Because I literally wouldn’t care one bit if it were the other way round, I find it difficult to talk about myself. I find small talk a boring dance of pretending to care about things I really don’t and in fact most conversation to be honest. That probably makes me ideal for management thought; I don’t seek emotional connection but I’m very good at feigning it. People just love to feel understood and important. If you achieve that, they’ll pretty much do what you want.

It’s not hyper-intelligence. I am aware that I am missing things which means that I will never be able to fit in. It can be quite isolating if you dwell on it, so I tend to focus on the benefits and how I can achieve my best.
I certainly have shortcomings but I tend to ignore or bypass them. I wouldn’t want to be different and I genuinely think that I am “superior” because I am not held back by problems that other people face, which is why I succeed in work. As mentioned before it has a negative impact on my personal life and relationships though.

It’s interesting that you both cite a high sense of self-worth as being related to not caring what others think of you. I’d say mine is anchored in feeling loved and valued. I was high achieving academically but it wasn’t until I matured emotionally that I felt good about myself (am Autistic so that took a while.

Do you ever feel bitter or angry when others don’t recognise your superiority? Or do you feel entitled to success, and angry with people who hold you back?

(If I was talking to normal people I’d put some softeners in there like ‘genuinely curious’ or ‘sorry to be blunt’ but I’ll assume the former is obvious to you and as for the latter, I’m not 🙂 I mask that usually)

@Arabels That's interesting also. Would you say as you know you are Autistic that you can relate to what I have said? I've never spoken to someone who has a diagnosis I only know of my children who are too young but I have a feeling I am. Just find it confusing, life in general to be honest.

However, what you said about being loved that's kind of what I feel but towards a partner. I want to know them for who they are and for them to know me, the real me. Everyone else doesn't know the real me I can't show it.

Yes to an extent @JibbaJab but there’s a lot that’s very different too. Things that come intuitively for most people aren’t intuitive to me but I’ve developed theories and workarounds that help me access normal social behaviour. For example small talk: it’s a way to acknowledge one another’s humanity and that’s important. It’s a signifier, it’s not really about the content, and hopefully it’s a precursor to a more interesting conversation. So I can do small talk now I’ve figured out an approach .
I’m not super logical though. There are some kinds of information and stimuli I can’t tune out, whereas if I had control of my field of focus I would ignore them. They massively affect my capabilities day to day. I think in a full-system way and I think that’s why I was hyperlexic (v common in ASD women)-language is inherently spatial to me and I get a real thrill out of arranging it to express something. I also get a kick out of understanding literature but I’ve heard that’s also v common in ASD people as books are about people, but legible versions of them! My numerical reasoning isn’t brilliant though, and my executive function is crap.

Also I experience empathy very strongly. I have no problem upsetting or hurting people if it’s fair, necessary, intentional, but I’m horrified if I hurt people by mistake and that comes with a big dollop of shame around probably having misread a situation, been impulsive, or not thought about how they might feel beforehand.

I feel like there’s very little separation between me and the people I’m close to and I’m very exposed to them emotionally. At the same time, I can be insecure in relationships because unless someone’s actively expressing how they feel about me I don’t really trust my intuition. That might be a therapy problem though!

I was running some highly armoured coping mechanisms around all of this, a bit of an ‘I don’t care and fuck you’ attitude, but it was exhausting and lonely so I’m working on admitting my vulnerabilities and living a softer life.

how can you not feel guilty about hurting someone intentionally.
i'd feel bad if i did that by mistake, agreed; but i'd feel even worse much more guilty if i did it intentionally.
where is conscience.

@Arabels Hmm, I'm wondering whether I have become hardened over the years and my marriage wasn't good, was abusive and I really struggled. I know I've always felt this way in general but when I was younger although I didn't show anything or interact I was extremely anxious and shy. Back then I would cry a lot, over people, situations and new places. Almost like I have ran out of tears.

I can empathise with people I just don't have a connection to most. I'll help anyone and I'm friendly to everyone I meet and most seem to like me and say I am an 'old soul'. I'm assuming that's good. I often worry about how I speak, how I may offend people by my tone or what I have said while at the same time there's no connection.

But yes most things I see logically, I don't really understand drama or the need for it around conflict. I will avoid conflict or confrontation it makes me feel uneasy, it's also unnecessary. Problem solving I don't get frustrated I will spend days on end finding a solution to make something that's broken work or at least tried everything I can before giving up.

Like one of my children I seem to have an affinity to music, I can memorize music and replay, hear or focus on parts others don't hear, same as them. Music has been forefront in my life same as it seems in them too.

I also have this weird thing that kind of fits in with looking at photograps and bringing myself into that time of the picture where I maybe have a photographic memory. If I recall something I can see it as if I am there, I can draw layouts of buildings and scenic places I have been when I was a child. I used to do this as a child, visit somewhere and when I got home, sketch what I saw in detail and create a scenic picture.

Hard to say I'm trying to get referred but long waiting times. Maybe I am just messed up from bad periods and it's conflicting my view.

I mean if I need to sack someone, I feel no embarrassment or anxiety whatsoever. Or if I need to set a boundary, eg no we’re not going to come for a play date because your child hits mine. Lots of mumsnet seems to struggle with this!

Surely you’ve delivered bad news before? I didn’t mean hurting them for sport. Just sometimes it has to happen.

not really. i've never been in that position.
except for medical things, where i seem to understand more of what it means than the patient, and then i would not say what i am thinking.
if it hasn't occurred to them, then why would i cause that hurt or worry or distress in their mind.
it's bad enough to be suffering illness physically.
why add mental anguish to it.
as for the boundaries, yes, but i would end the sentence shorter: no my child cannot come for a playdate at yours.

Yeah, when there's a need and it's right or necessary. Sometimes things need to happen and people get hurt in the process.

If someone is wrong, they are wrong. If someone is right, they are right. I won't defend someone who is in the wrong but I'll defend someone who is right, regardless of the social impact to myself.

Would I intentionally hurt someone because I feel like it or feel off, no. If someone hurts me, I may but it would have to be something massive as I don't seem to have a fuse.

Do I feel bitter or angry if others don’t recognise my superiority?
My sense of self-worth just isn’t in any way connected to what others think. I literally do not care even one tiny bit what other people think of me (although I do like to be liked; it’s just that my self worth isn’t rooted in this if that makes sense). I don’t really enjoy holding the floor or being centre of attention though because I care so little about what others think that I find it difficult to believe they care about what I’ve got to say all that much

@thelinkisdead As in, you like being liked but should someone not like you or think you are not as good as you are, then that's their opinion but ultimately it means nothing in the grand scheme of things?

Exactly. I like being perceived as friendly but ultimately this is because I am an extrovert and I enjoy being with people. Should they not like me then my view is that they’re missing out. I’m very selective with friends though; if you’re not as intelligent as me (not simply from an academic perspective) then I’m really not interested. I get very bored very quickly. My husband is far cleverer than I am (he would funnily enough say the same about me) and I find him infinitely interesting and engaging. Not many other people compare I’m afraid.