Psychopath

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I've just learnt apparently one per cent of the population is a psychopath.
But generally not in the film way (e.g American Psycho) but in an actual mental health way (e.g high impulsivity/low boredom threshold/egocentric/superficially charming/liars).
There's the Hare Checklist which I've got really into.
But what it boils down is that they don't seem to feel emotions.
I can't comprehend this - I get angry and sad and anxious and all the emotions - and am fascinated. One per seems huge.
Does anyone think they know a psychopath? Genuinely? This isn't an AIBU BTW. I'm honestly just really interested.

@Remembermynamealways....

Well we are all part of of a big jigsaw are we not and having a surgeon focused. Unemotional. Cold treating me would be very different to me having a cold emotional fil who helped to ruin many wonderful moments of my life

Having a family member who is emotionally invested does not make a professional trend; there will be those who are and those who aren’t. I’m invested in my career for myself, and it is the byproduct of me being so that means those I work with are so well cared for. Do not mistake that for any higher emotion than simply the desire to do well at my job, I actually think if more people were like me, we wouldn’t have professions striking; this idea that we do a job for the greater good keeps wages lower than they should be in terms of educational cost/student debt etc

I think I spent many years with a psychopath. We dated for 6 months before a work colleague told me he had a fiancé of many years. Everyone knew except me, I looked a total idiot in my aging new profession. I had specifically asked whether he was single. The lying was only trumped by the gaslighting when I found out, one comment being ‘i told you it was on and off’ - no he didn’t and I don’t think his fiancé of many years would have agreed with that description either. Sadly, I was massively under his spell by then. He was incredibly charming and funny and clever and knew just the things to say to reel you in (me, colleagues, friends, all different stuff, total bullshit chameleon). We had a physical chemistry that I have never found again since. He then kept me dangling (I may leave her, I need to choose, I love you and that should be enough). Stupidly I allowed myself to be dangled - a clever independent professional young woman. Eventually he said he’d left her for me, moved out of their shared flat but I then found out from another colleague that fiancé was pregnant and they were still very much together. Just total and utter lies. And a complete lack of care that I was bound to find out. I found out later that there were many others alongside. It was astonishing - I genuinely couldn’t believe that someone could behave like that. With a colleague too! Utter madness.

He had a shit background, negligent needy mum, part of a weird religious cult at one point. I think he could tell I was an emotionally vulnerable person at the time and he made a beeline for me, I think he could sense it. In retrospect I realise he chose me over numerous other pretty colleague prospects precisely because of that. he’s now massively internationally successful/world leading in his field. Still with that poor fiance now wife. Does a really dangerous sport to a high level as a hobby. Still takes drugs and lives a risky life. A thrill seeker with no scruples.

I look back and am so thankful I escaped. But he was definitely a psychopath and it makes or shudder a bit now how utterly reeled in I was by his charming facade. Dangerous person. But it taught me an awful lot about people, relationships and also myself.

The tribunal judgement is interesting reading, I followed the case at the time as well. I think he fits many, many of Hare's criteria (grandiosity, glibness and superficial charm, lack of affect, lack of remorse, impulsivity, juvenile delinquency etc) - and certainly was hugely manipulative, would only talk to people high up in the hospital 'hierarchy', would tend to flatter outsiders and writers to get them to do things for him, and so on.

But psychopathy is a spectrum like any PD, there will always be some incongruous elements. One thing I always remember reading is that when he was first being interviewed by police, he showed no reaction to the absolute horrors he was charged with but was very, very embarrassed at being asked to name his parents because his father was unknown. That is something that crops up a few times - being easy to embarrass. Easily embarrassed about his father, his accent, sexuality, etc etc. That is the only really incongruent thing I can bring to mind, though.

*Brand new profession
*makes me shudder a bit now

@thelinkisdead I'm not suggesting that because I know a surgeon who is invested then all surgeons are, simply that at least some are and probably a large minority or a small majority are to a lesser or greater degree.

@Sheog I don't know that I can explain it. He just cares. Partly, no doubt because it is his job and if he messes up it looks bad for him but one of the reasons he went into medicine was to make a difference and he wants to help his patients and he cares what happens to them. I think if that's a feeling you don't have then it's very difficult to explain.

That is true, but antisocial elements do not necessarily a psychopath make. It’s got to be considered within the context of the bigger picture, and the bigger picture in Brady’s case doesn’t tell a particularly clear story.

The disaffectedness would correlate with schizoid personality as well, and the embarrassment about anything that that he would consider to be a weakness would correspond to narcissistic elements. He was certainly sadistic, and I would agree with the previous poster that sadistic personality disorder is more a fitting diagnosis that psychopathy:

• Sadistic personality disorder is no longer in the DSM, but it's still recognized by personality aficionados.
• The chief component of sadistic personality is taking pleasure in cruel, demeaning, and aggressive behaviors as a means of control.
• It is differentiated from antisocial personality disorder in that, for the sadistic personality, cruelty and aggression is an end unto itself.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/and-running/202106/the-personality-disorder-we-dont-hear-enough-about?amp

SPD is wildly overlooked, and is often conflated with psychopathy despite it being distinct. Of course there’s also the mental illness element of Brady’s psyche as well, which is something he actively tried to conceal. He wasn’t a stupid man, and he was also someone committed to appearing a certain way.

@Sheog

Because respect for others, empathy, integrity, and responsibility are literally the core values of being a Doctor. It then would come as no surprise that a Doctor has compassion and cares and has empathy for their patients?? It's in their nature.

They see patients (gleaning a history, family set-up, background) at the beginning of a journey (initial consultation for example) and see them through to the end, and along the way (hopefully successfully) remove the carcinoma/fix/repair/reconstruct/improve upon the patients body/wellbeing/life.

This is at the forefront of their minds whilst they operate, I can vouch for this as conversation in the theatre is quite often about how tragic the situation is or what family they have or how this patient has been battling. To say they only see patients as a number is actually disrespectful.

It gives incredible job satisfaction but also absolute heartbreak at unsuccessful cases.

I'm actually a bit baffled how anyone "can't see how they can be emotionally invested"

Can I ask genuinely why you think they aren't?

I speak in relation to the vast majority but I am aware (like in all health care roles) there are the odd few who you might say lack all empathy/are detached etc but even at that who are we, as observers to judge the intentions or emotional connection anyone has?

My ex was one and I’ve taught a few in school.

Huh? Perhaps we have different understandings of "emotional investment". My reference was to another PP stating that surgeons would "just see them as another patient/number" and "how could they possible view them as anything else"

Surely at the heart of the "caring profession" (a job you are in) is actually genuinely caring? Rather than just doing it for money? How can you fake caring?! You either do or don't? That's what empathy is...thinking "if I was in this patients shoes how would I like to be treated? How could I better this patient's experience right now as they sit in a really shitty situation?"

It's beyond sympathy and it's what people who are in caring roles are expected to do...it's part of the core attributes.

It's a scary thought that some delivering the care have no attachment/thought/emotional investment towards those they are giving the care to..but I suppose sadly I've seen the evidence of this in the delivery of some truly awful care.

I'm up early but will go into more detail about my Brady theory tomorrow

The surgeon thing? Look into utilitarianism. The trolley problem etc...

I guess for me they are two sides of the same coin.
Brady lied like he breathed and as you say, wanted to present a certain way. In prison, he concocted a complete fantasy life where he had been a gang 'enforcer' and travelled all over Europe, etc etc. There was no evidence for any of it, he was a loser. At the same time, he completely glossed over other parts of his life - portrayed Borstal as a breeze and a bore, when other contemporaneous accounts from 'borstal boys' described hideous bullying and abuse.

Primary and secondary psychopathy might help clear up some questions here.

Also the dark triad.

@honeyrain I think what was meant was that although to others it may come across as caring, they don't actually feel any care or empathy themselves. As it's a caring job, that requires care, and they strive to be the best in their profession which is important to them, they do just that. To the point people believe they care but it's actually high efficiency, attention to detail and pride in carrying out that caring role which in turn provides high levels of care.

So they are saying don't assume because the role suggests care as you would expect from the name, that it requires actual care in order for someone to be...cared for well.

That's how I read it anyway and I may have just made it more confusing but I think I get what means.

Ex boyfriend of mine lied and cheated chronically and also made up a chronic health condition. Very superficially charming, cold and unfeeling. Not sure if he'd be a psychopath but he told me he thought he was a sociopath.

No, doctors are supposed to treat and cure where possible, or to refer otherwise. I don’t see why anyone would expect them to sympathise.

But then I am different to you and I don’t think we can ever understand each other.

He just have been. Maybe even a cannibal but

@Guiltridden12345 @JamSandle

I would say those are more along the lines of what I believe I'm dealing with which is a Narcissist. Although, I don't know for sure, and people in general can also be narcissistic rather than having NPD which is what I think my one was as it was on a totally different level and abusive.

May align though if you check those out but I think actual NPD is rare but who knows.

An ex of mine is 100% a psychopath, very scary individual

Truly believe that there are some genuine psychopaths on this thread. This is not in joke or jest.

To actually not be able to comprehend why individuals in a caring profession truly care is kind of blowing my mind.

And to openly be in a caring role and not have the ability nor desire to see the patients as individuals and have genuine empathy towards them again.....🤯

As I've said previously, it's literally in the essential core values.

@JibbaJab I can understand what they have written....I just am a bit...horrified as someone who is a nurse.

I think he was certainly a narcissist. But I wouldn’t say he was deliberately cruel or nasty. He just didn’t register that having 4 or 5 girlfriends, and lying to each one, would catch up with him or be upsetting. It was like he had a chip missing. Which is why he was impossible to understand.

Medicine is a job that does indeed attract psychopaths, regardless of what others may consider to be the core values of the profession. Surgeons generally have a higher rate of psychopathic traits comparative to the general population:
https://publishing.rcseng.ac.uk/doi/10.1308/rcsbull.2015.331

The problem with lumping then in together is that it’s a disservice to actually understanding each personality. There’s a huge difference between inflicting pain incidentally, and inflicting pain as the goal. Perhaps not to the one on the receiving end of the pain, but motivation does matter, as it highlights not only a clear distinction between two very different personalities, but it has a major impact on how they are both tackled in a clinical setting.

yes, there’s a lot of evidence of shame in Brady in regards to his background. He attempted to conceal, and violently eschewed, anything that could be classed as a weakness, and contradicted the image he wanted to portray to the world (and indeed himself).

@honeyrain Yeah I mean not all are dangerous but yes hard to think. Mine who I believe has NPD worked with children and nobody knows how they really are, totally delusional and abusive. Currently they are living in a bubble of their own, a new life created by themselves and are socializing with other mothers and their children. They all believe they're a wonderful person and don't know what's actually happening between us and our children.