Would you be upset - it's a work one

[Ceci03]

I have 2 managers and 3 team mates. While I was away on leave last week, an invitation was sent to me and the 3 others inviting us to 'refresher training' yesterday. I only realised when I got into the office that 3 individual meeting requests had been sent. So it was just the 2 managers, me and a p/t member of staff who it was explained was there as she was an 'expert'. (She has worked here longer than the other team members). So anyway when I went into the meeting room (p/t member told me I would need my laptop) - it turned out to be a test. I was a bit shocked and tbh got very nervous. The p/t member of staff gave me a task, and I had to complete it in front of them with them all looking over my shoulder. I got caught out a couple of times - she had put things in to 'catch me out', although if I had had a few mins I would have 'got it'.

They then proceeded to say that it had been brought to their attention that a lot of mistakes were being made but they didnt know by who, so that's why I had to do the test. They kept asking me 'who is making mistakes' and I just said I hadn't noticed anything specific, and was certainly not going to name names, and that I looked on it as 3 of us were new since Jan and were on a steep learning curve, and we learned from our mistakes. It was extremely uncomfortable.

At the time I was a bit shell shocked and just went along with it. The next team member to go in - I gave him a heads up and said it wasnt a training session but a test. He spoke to me afterwards. He also was upset and said it felt extremely demeaning. Which I agree with. The third person due to sit this test was on a/l. She was back today and we warned her - gave her a chance to 'swot'. I think it was very sneaky and not nice - am I right to be upset about it.

I don’t think you’ve done too much wrong, depending on how much you lost it.
You made a fair point that it wasn’t training, it was a test and they tricked you. They should’ve been upfront and they handled it poorly. It reflects badly on them too.
Definitely do not mention part-time, it’s not relevant. Focus your points on this test, how it was presented and why there are gains in the training and what they can do about that as a organisation. Don’t agree to take too much of the flack for this one!

Gaps not gains

@Appleofmyeye2023 I want to work for you 😆

You have a manager that ignores you and another that is aggressive and abrupt. Your training has been poor. You and your colleagues have worked well amd done your best to learn the ropes and are managing well despite the hostile work environment created by the managers. The surprise tests have been extremely upsetting for all your team in the circumstances and have felt degrading and demeaning and designed to catch you out and shame you in front of these managers. The whole thing sounds dishonest and really bad managemen and shows exactly what they think of their staff. I think id seriously consider resigning if they dont give an apology at the meeting.
Dont let them turn it round on to you. You arent at fault here.

Well done @Ceci03 I like how you managed this and what you did afterwards.

Did they ask your colleague to snitch too?

I'd be upset by this, shoes the lack of management capability imo.

Hope it blows over soon, but unless you out live your nanager, you may well need to find another job, not immediately, but this type of behaviour will rear its ugly head again :(

Piss poor management by any standards, but this sounds like something I witnessed. Basically fraud by someone above suspicion, with people ( maybe the p/t 'expert')colluding with the guilty to find a patsy to take the blame.
Start looking for a job OP, bad things are on the horizon.

☺️
but I retired 2 years ago. Sorry 🤣🤣

I worked for some very good companies, with good hr and L&D departments, got good training on being a manager, and had some excellent managers as role models

it’s not intuitive- it comes with training, and experience.

well, good for them that their initial motivation was solidarity with their colleagues rather than underhanded collusion with their bosses then. Bravo OP, more of you pls

Crikey you need to step back. You’re going to get fired. And rightly so at this rate.

It’s perfectly fine for employers to have employees do on the spot tests or assessments and that is training in its own right. It helps employers identify training gaps, skill gaps, those who can work under pressure, it can help identify if people are making repeat mistakes. There is value. At this point you’re really making yourself look unprofessional and to then blow up. Enough.

I'd not only be upset, I'd be rampantly furious and actively looking for another job. This reminds me of a ghastly little publishing company with a name related to spiders that I worked for in Newcastle (now based in Gateshead) when I was desperate for a job and just took the first thing that came my way - and wished I hadn't. This is exactly the kind of stunt they would have pulled, the managers (some of whom owned the company) were always trying to catch us all out.

I know you don't want to move, but the environment at this company isn't going to improve. I'd bet money on them possibly being in financial straits, if not now, then in the very near future. If they're not in financial trouble, they're possibly under some kind of governance threat.

TBH, given your past experience, I’d be wary about putting a request for further training in writing.

May be a discussion with others, your colleages, around - and make mention of the testing - but not a direct request.

Some years ago, new Head. I was a Hd of Dept. Big staff meeting, everyone saw in departments.

We had to list our departments strengths and weaknesses. We’d been honest, new Head, fresh ideas etc etc. Big mistake.

Strengths ignored. Weaknesses picked on relentlessly. Unions involved supporting 5 colleagues. ( And that was just 1 union)

I left for happier pastures a couple of years later.

But the it had been brought to their notice that mistakes were being made the thing is 3 out of 4 of us were new back in Jan.

The 4th person who’s been there longer is the one who has brought the ‘mistakes’ to the bosses’ notice.

This!

I've been through similar things a couple of times.

In one there was 3 managers vs me (& I do mean vs!) and they kept saying "you did this wrong" and I'd ask "when?" Reply "last October and you never did it right at any time since" And I'd ask "so how was I supposed to know that it was wrong if you kept letting me do the same thing without any feedback".

Another time I was dealing with a real bully and went in with my notes ready. It was a right long list of "you did this and I responded and you shouted at me" "I did this and you humiliated me in front of my colleagues". There was a second manager in the meeting as scribe and witness and she said afterwards she was really impressed that I was calm, organised, coherent and basically didn't put up with any carp.

So write out your notes, take a witness in with you or at least a neutral person as scribe. after they start the meeting and say "we're here to discuss...." tell them you want to make a statement. Explain that the situation upset you and maybe you over-reacted but you think there are still things that they need to resolve. Best of luck with it.

Look for another job. Unreasonable, other than your warning the others.

Sounds appalling

Op this sounds really dramatic but I would honest to god rather be unemployed and take anything that results out of that (eg couch surfing, moving in with relatives etc), than work in this environment. Forget about them bringing ANYTHING against you, this honestly needs to go to court or to a union. Insane. Huge hugs op x

@Ceci03
Your employers have the right to expect the accurate and correct output for which they are paying. Quality control testing is not and should not be a problem. They should however alert employees that this will be happening at random times.

Do you think it fair that employers should have to accept sub par work without trying to determine the source? An alternative might be to let the entire team go because they are unable to determine who is the source of the problem. They might also determine that the entire team needs retraining.

An employee who knows the job and functions well, really has nothing to fear from random testing.

This is going to be a hard thing to survive. I would start looking for another job ASAP and say very little at the meeting. Just sit still and breath slowly and try and keep your heart rate down.

My guess is they know who is making mistakes. They can give a pop quiz if they want to in an effort to be fair - I don't think it's that crazy. But getting over-emotional and have a rant aimed at management - that's a hard one to come back from.

All well and good as long as the staff have actually received training in the first place. But when they haven't....

It is hard to hold your nerve when someone keeps needling e.g. calling it training. But breathing slowly and pausing before you jump in with a response will help how you come across.

I agree that the managers sound very ineffective (what’s new?) and the entire situation is ridiculous for the OP, but I actually feel sorry for the p/t member of staff in this scenario too.

It’s unclear to me whether the extra training and resolving errors on behalf of the rest of the team is part of her job description or whether she was expecting her role to be working at the same level as the rest of the team?

Maybe the test wasn’t her idea but as they’re the expert, the managers are clearly relying on her to work out what’s going wrong, and if the test was at the manager’s behest, it would also explain why she kept referring to it as training and didn’t want to apologise for it being run as an ad hoc test. Perhaps she’s trying to distance herself from ownership of it too? Again, assuming the general incompetence of the management, you don’t know what shit she’s having to deal with from them. Maybe she hoped that p/t meant she could offload some of her responsibilities but often part timers end up getting dumped on by crap managers. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Unfortunately, I think you shot the wrong messenger at the zoom meeting and instead need to re-focus your annoyance towards the gaps in training and your managers’ lack of leadership, but put it far more subtly than that.

As others have said, write a list of key bullet points to refer to and take a breather and look down at the list if you feel yourself getting wound up at any point.

Good luck!

Oh pal grow up a bit. DON'T APOLOGISE. What are you apologising for? Stand by your guns and if they say you were intimidating/aggressive then state "I'm sorry you feel that way". You're in the right and she didn't take it on board. Noone else had the courage to say it and now they're trying to undermine you by making you think you were out of line. They sound like arse lickers to me. In future set up the email chain straight away or at least off your chest and into the manager's court. Kill them with kindness. What garbage.

This!!

“trying to determine the source” that’s the point, the ops employers should have the processes and tech in place to be able to know who made the mistake, and ideally they should be able to head these off long before they cause issues. The fact they have to do some underhand testing dressed up as “training” to try and discover the culprit months later shows how dire their processes, as well as their training and management skills are.