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Original poster

Would you be upset - it's a work one

145 replies

Ceci03 · 02/08/2023 15:47

I have 2 managers and 3 team mates. While I was away on leave last week, an invitation was sent to me and the 3 others inviting us to 'refresher training' yesterday. I only realised when I got into the office that 3 individual meeting requests had been sent. So it was just the 2 managers, me and a p/t member of staff who it was explained was there as she was an 'expert'. (She has worked here longer than the other team members). So anyway when I went into the meeting room (p/t member told me I would need my laptop) - it turned out to be a test. I was a bit shocked and tbh got very nervous. The p/t member of staff gave me a task, and I had to complete it in front of them with them all looking over my shoulder. I got caught out a couple of times - she had put things in to 'catch me out', although if I had had a few mins I would have 'got it'.

They then proceeded to say that it had been brought to their attention that a lot of mistakes were being made but they didnt know by who, so that's why I had to do the test. They kept asking me 'who is making mistakes' and I just said I hadn't noticed anything specific, and was certainly not going to name names, and that I looked on it as 3 of us were new since Jan and were on a steep learning curve, and we learned from our mistakes. It was extremely uncomfortable.

At the time I was a bit shell shocked and just went along with it. The next team member to go in - I gave him a heads up and said it wasnt a training session but a test. He spoke to me afterwards. He also was upset and said it felt extremely demeaning. Which I agree with. The third person due to sit this test was on a/l. She was back today and we warned her - gave her a chance to 'swot'. I think it was very sneaky and not nice - am I right to be upset about it.

OP posts:
Smellslikesummer · 03/08/2023 13:23

Mmh I don’t know, imagine you are the manager and there are lots of mistakes being made, wouldn’t it be good to know who is responsible so that training can be targeted at this/these individuals instead of possibly wasting time of others who don’t need it?
It is similar to secret shoppers, IMO, to identify who is great at their job and who needs to improve.

Original poster
Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 14:00

So I think I e screwed up big time. We had a meeting this morning on teams a regular once a week catch up. The expert pet timer opened with "so I hope you all enjoyed the training on Tuesday" . Unfortunately I saw red and I said to her that it wasn't training it was a test. Which was ok. She said she hadn't sent out the invite and it was nothing to do with her. And I said no I'm sorry but you knew what was going to happen and you also called it training to our faces so you need to take some responsibility. She kept saying ok that's fine and I'm sorry you feel that way and I will feedback you comments to the managers. I said don't say it's fine as it's not fine. The other guy then jumped in and said he also felt the same. But good for him he kept very calm and spoke in a quiet. voice. The third member backed me up on one thing that the expert was arguing with me about . So I accept I probably raised my voice and spoke too harshly and im mortified and embarrassed and so so cross with myself as now it's just going to be about how upset the expert is and how I upset her. And I've lost the argument haven't I. I really really hate myself. It's happened before and is something I need to work on. I keep things in and say nothing but then explode. It's one extreme or the other. Thinking she will bring a grievance against me . Have been called for a meeting on Tuesday. Im so ashamed of myself

OP posts:
TeaKitten · 03/08/2023 14:05

Have you apologised to her?

Original poster
Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 14:05

@Smellslikesummer I know but if they don't provide any training then they can't complain we are not getting it right. I always think a carrot will get more out of a team than a stick. If they had organized a group session ( which I had thought it was) and had a bit for training and then maybe a fun quiz at the end that's how I would have gone about it. And we would have learnt a lot more .

OP posts:
Original poster
Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 14:06

@TeaKitten not yet but I've been crying all morning. I'm composing something now and thought I'd send it before she finishes at 4. She's off next week so I wanted to say sorry to her before she goes on hol. I don't want to upset her well
I know I did and feel awful

OP posts:
MavisChunch29 · 03/08/2023 14:11

I would have done exactly the same. Why would she raise a grievance? You were just being honest. She was being dishonest about the training and putting people in a deliberately horrible position and needed telling. Don't apologise to her, she needs to apologise to you.

towriteyoumustlive · 03/08/2023 14:13

I wouldn't want to work for a company who treated its staff like that.

3 of you new since January?? Says it all really...

I would say anything but I'd be looking for a better job.

Original poster
Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 14:13

I dunno @MavisChunch29 . During the meeting the guy who had also been put through it private message me and said well done for speaking up. But afterwards he messaged me and said he thought there would be consequences and I had gone too far. As he put it the content was good but the delivery questionable

OP posts:
RainyWeekend · 03/08/2023 14:41

@Ceci03 No matter what the consequences I bet you feel a million times better for saying it!!

Smellslikesummer · 03/08/2023 14:51

Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 14:05

@Smellslikesummer I know but if they don't provide any training then they can't complain we are not getting it right. I always think a carrot will get more out of a team than a stick. If they had organized a group session ( which I had thought it was) and had a bit for training and then maybe a fun quiz at the end that's how I would have gone about it. And we would have learnt a lot more .

I think it is all about management style. Potentially wasting the whole team’s time / preparing a fun quizz instead of doing a straightforward assessment to target training wouldn’t be my choice BUT other managers would agree with you (there is a colour test that managers do at my company, very widely known, that illustrates it perfectly).

re your recent update, I can empathize, I lost my cool a few times, people backed me up but not vocally enough and I was so annoyed with myself especially as the points I was making were then brushed under the carpet as a result of my outburst taking all the attention. Maybe keep a low profile for a few weeks and then calmly start the discussion again (if you then still want to).

AnSolas · 03/08/2023 15:09

Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 14:13

I dunno @MavisChunch29 . During the meeting the guy who had also been put through it private message me and said well done for speaking up. But afterwards he messaged me and said he thought there would be consequences and I had gone too far. As he put it the content was good but the delivery questionable

Was he using a company or personal message system?

I would not be sending an apology in writing at this stage.
You are upset and on a deadline so not a good combo.

Sit down and write ( pen on paper/ on personal tec ) a report of the meeting of what was said then go back and look at what "emotional" verbs you used.
Were you blunt or rude etc.

YukoandHiro · 03/08/2023 15:32

Were HR in any way involved? If not then report to them and say you felt it was demeaning etc

Original poster
Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 15:35

Yeh but even if a quiz is a "waste of time" for people who know it it still makes people feel a bit better and there's a few laughs and u feel like the managers are trying? Or if they had given notice that it was a test. Let us swot for it. I hadn't done that task since Feb so was rusty on it which I thought was unfair like they wanted us to fail?

OP posts:
CantHaveTooMuchChocolate · 03/08/2023 15:38

I don’t blame you for raising it with the “expert”, I suspect I’d have done similar. Love the fact you also warned your teammates, think that says a lot about your teamwork and attitude imo! I’d probably let things lie and see what happens. I’d definitely start looking for a better company to work at though, the management at yours sounds really poor. If they don’t know more about the mistakes, why aren’t they doing more to find out the causes and pinpoint training where required, instead of springing random tests on their unsuspecting employees.

Illegallyblonder · 03/08/2023 15:46

It's very bad practice and poor management. If there is an issue with training or mistakes there are a lot of approaches better than this.

As it is, they've pissed you off and several other people and they haven't really achieved anything at all, other than that. And if you weren't trained properly in the first place that's on them, not you.

You are beating yourself up about your behaviour but tbh, it's not surprising you were upset, it's a reasonable reaction. So I would apologise for HOW you said it, but not for what you said.

If there are errors / complaints then I would tackle it very differently:

Consider training for everyone
Create process documentation for users to refer to
Log issues and complaints, identify root causes, share these with the team
Ask everyone in the team how things could be done differently or better
Start logging good ideas on a continuous improvement spreadsheet

There are lots of ways of dealing with the issues but getting everyone in to do a test isn't one of them, they're batshit if they thought it was a good idea.

Illegallyblonder · 03/08/2023 15:50

And you're right when you say "what if we're all scared to make a mistake" - a blame culture - which is definitely what is operating here - generally has the effect of making people feel like that.

So people don't own up to mistakes = nobody corrects the root cause (sometimes it's just human error as we are all human) = mistakes carry on or get even bigger = demoralised team members = counterproductive.

Everyone makes mistakes, everyone. Anyone who says they don't is deluded or lying. I'm sorry this happened to you, there are some terrible management practices about.

Illegallyblonder · 03/08/2023 16:01

OP, if you know you sometimes lose your temper then you need to work on that by finding ways of expressing yourself that are firm and get your point across while remaining professional. Because it won't ever help your cause, however just, losing your temper. But it is totally fine to say what you think, of course.

For example, instead of saying "you are fucking mentalists tricking us into doing a test by telling us it was training, you horrible fuckwits, it really pissed me off " (I hope that wasn't how you said it but you get my gist!) you could have said "Please can I give you some feedback on the session? I understand the purpose was to evaluate our performance and to establish training needs but I'm not sure it achieved that. I personally felt upset at the end of the session because I felt I was being blamed for errors. Also, I do think there was a lack of training in January so this could be partly to blame for any errors, maybe we could look at refresher training for the whole team?" Or words to that effect, you can see what I'm getting at I hope.

But please stop beating yourself up about it, they didn't behave well, you understandably didn't react well, decide what to do next. Personally, I'd be applying for other roles.

Ledwood85 · 03/08/2023 16:03

Two managers for four staff tells us everything we need to know about this place.

Original poster
Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 16:13

@Ledwood85 Tbf that's just our sub team there are 4 more members of the overall team for them to manage. But yeh 2 managers for 8 people is a bit too heavy imo too

OP posts:
Original poster
Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 16:15

@Illegallyblonder thank you! Can I take you into the meeting with me on Tuesday . I am beating myself up and this is why I often opt to say nothing as I seem to be incapable of holding my nerve. I just lose it and then of course I've lost the argument . I had thought I was getting better but I think I've just been getting better at holding it all in and trying not to care. Thing is I do cAre and want to do well and get it right that's why I'm upset too

OP posts:
GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 03/08/2023 16:16

Like fuck I'd be apologising to her.

It sounds like she was being insufferably smug about tricking you and she deserved to have it pointed out it was unpleasant and unprofessional.

Perhaps if they stopped wasting time trying to be clever and tricking people with fake 'training', and instead the p/t expert actually trained people, they wouldn't be in a position of trying to Poirot a way of finding who has or hasn't made a mistake 7 months down the line.

If she's supposedly trained you all, and you're all making mistakes left right and centre, it's her that hasn't done her job properly.

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 03/08/2023 16:19

OP, is she one of those people who gatekeeps knowledge and then harps on about how indispensable she is and how she's the only one who can do anything?

She sounds suspiciously like someone I used to work with.

SadieOlsen · 03/08/2023 16:25

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 03/08/2023 16:16

Like fuck I'd be apologising to her.

It sounds like she was being insufferably smug about tricking you and she deserved to have it pointed out it was unpleasant and unprofessional.

Perhaps if they stopped wasting time trying to be clever and tricking people with fake 'training', and instead the p/t expert actually trained people, they wouldn't be in a position of trying to Poirot a way of finding who has or hasn't made a mistake 7 months down the line.

If she's supposedly trained you all, and you're all making mistakes left right and centre, it's her that hasn't done her job properly.

^ THIS^
Don't be so upset OP and honestly I would not apologise - they should be apologising to you for that disgraceful setting-up of staff - basically deliberately lying about "training". Don't let them put you on the back foot. You are the kind of honest person I would love to work with!

Illegallyblonder · 03/08/2023 16:45

Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 16:15

@Illegallyblonder thank you! Can I take you into the meeting with me on Tuesday . I am beating myself up and this is why I often opt to say nothing as I seem to be incapable of holding my nerve. I just lose it and then of course I've lost the argument . I had thought I was getting better but I think I've just been getting better at holding it all in and trying not to care. Thing is I do cAre and want to do well and get it right that's why I'm upset too

ha ha, I'd love to! Make a list before you go in and refer to it. You can tick off the items as you go along if you like. Of course you care and that's why you're upset (as well as how they've handled it).

Also, you can say things like "I feel" - nobody can argue with your feelings, you feel what you feel and you're entitled to your feelings

and you can say "my view is..." and "my understanding was... " (that it was a training session and "can I comment? " - all of those will get your point across without being unprofessional. Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Brefugee · 03/08/2023 16:57

Not ideal - what was your on-boarding process like?

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