Would you be upset - it's a work one

[Ceci03]

I have 2 managers and 3 team mates. While I was away on leave last week, an invitation was sent to me and the 3 others inviting us to 'refresher training' yesterday. I only realised when I got into the office that 3 individual meeting requests had been sent. So it was just the 2 managers, me and a p/t member of staff who it was explained was there as she was an 'expert'. (She has worked here longer than the other team members). So anyway when I went into the meeting room (p/t member told me I would need my laptop) - it turned out to be a test. I was a bit shocked and tbh got very nervous. The p/t member of staff gave me a task, and I had to complete it in front of them with them all looking over my shoulder. I got caught out a couple of times - she had put things in to 'catch me out', although if I had had a few mins I would have 'got it'.

They then proceeded to say that it had been brought to their attention that a lot of mistakes were being made but they didnt know by who, so that's why I had to do the test. They kept asking me 'who is making mistakes' and I just said I hadn't noticed anything specific, and was certainly not going to name names, and that I looked on it as 3 of us were new since Jan and were on a steep learning curve, and we learned from our mistakes. It was extremely uncomfortable.

At the time I was a bit shell shocked and just went along with it. The next team member to go in - I gave him a heads up and said it wasnt a training session but a test. He spoke to me afterwards. He also was upset and said it felt extremely demeaning. Which I agree with. The third person due to sit this test was on a/l. She was back today and we warned her - gave her a chance to 'swot'. I think it was very sneaky and not nice - am I right to be upset about it.

I would be careful about constantly referring to the other member of staff as a ‘part timer’. As someone who works part time I find this pretty derogatory - it is possible to be part time and be an expert or have a position of responsibility. It may be the case that there has been a lack of training and the situation has been badly handled but part time shouldn’t come into it.

So they managed to find time to organise this "test" but couldn't find time in January to arrange some basic training for new arrivals?

Management don't seem to have gone about this very well, but watching how someone does something and explaining where they went wrong - in an individual setting so mistakes aren't pointed out in front of other colleagues, is training.

It sounds like you can't handle criticism, and have a bit of a temper - both things that you need to work on and it sounds like you are aware of the temper.

Managers are not there to tiptoe around and devise fun tests to make you feel better. It doesn't sound like you were in any trouble for making mistakes, they just wanted to identify who was making the mistakes to stop it happening.

The lack of training at the beginning is where they've gone wrong, mentioning this may help you.

Its really not fair on the other employee having to deliver the training and then have someone be aggressive with her about it - best to take it up with the managers.

Hmm, I'm on the fence on this one. I don't necessarily have a problem with the method per se, but it seems to have been carried out in a very judgmental way. A need for training has clearly been identified (people are making mistakes). The 'exam' should have been reframed as a diagnostic assessment to highlight areas where you might benefit from further training. In the trainers position I'd have perhaps asked for your input eg rate your confidence level doing A, B or C before the assessment. I'd have all staff do this together or within a very short space of time. I'd then analyse the results and focus on further training in areas where you're all less confident plus some ad hoc tailored input.
I don't think they've necessarily done anything 'wrong' in terms of employment law but they could certainly have done better.
It's interesting though that with a bit of prior notice and 'swatting' staff will likely perform better. This indicates to me that a short refresher might have worked just as well if you're all understanding the new processes, just needing to practice it.
I mean inagine if you said to a new driver this is the accelerator, clutch and brake, here's the steering wheel...OK clutch is new, here's how it works, have a go....OK everyone got that....now off we go to London....well that would be madness! Yes they understand but they need to practice. Your employer should allow time for you to 'practice' safely and should not let you work without some sort of supervision/observation to make sure you're all doing it right. Turning round after 6 months and saying you're doing it wrong ....well more fool them!

Were they testing if the training wasn't up to scratch? Or testing the individuals who were trained?

If several people, starting at the same time, received the same training and it transpires they aren't 100% up to speed on everything, doesn't that highlight a deficiency in the training?

I presume you’ve all passed your probation period since you’ve been there 6 months but it sounds like initial training/onboarding (was some of this done remotely?) was poor and they’re now trying to mitigate by sorting out these tests.

I think the part time tester is put in a bit of an awkward situation as it seems like they’ve asked her to do this and police it. She sounds like she’s pleased in some way in catching one of you out but it is very underhand.

I’d be tempted to say in the meeting:-

• I don’t like the underhand way of being tested and being lied to about it
• initial training wasn’t good - do you intend to provide more?

Have any of you had appraisals yet? I’m not sure where you stand employment wise but HR or ACAS should be involved.

It’s not a nice way to treat people at all though and I’d be thinking about leaving.

I don't think you should feel this bad over loosing your cool. Being angry and hurt is a reasonable reaction to their behaviour. Own your reaction instead of feeling mortified or ashamed.

Yes apologise if she was upset (and perhaps if you were swearing / shouting). But a meeting with your team should be a safe place to vent your feelings.

They need to discuss what the mistakes have been to actually identify training needs. The managers and pt staff sound awful.

Sound like bad management. If we're you I'd apologise for my out burst (if it was really that bad and you're aren't just over thinking it) and explain how having been invited for training and instead engaged in assessment you felt put on the spot/ distrust in management/ cheated put of training. I'd go on to answer the email re training by asking what the outcome of your assessment was and if there was anything they felt you should be working on. I would continue to refer to that day as assessment. In emails refer to it as assessment with the date it took place. If they challenge you ask which part was the training and what were their intended learning outcomes for it.

Look elsewhere now! I wouldn't bother with a grievance it is just blame culture and poor management.

I've had this previously (not a test but a meeting dressed up as how to agree to split my work more evenly). It was just a barrage of accusations from everyone against me whilst our line manager sat there and grinned. I should have left long before then whilst my mental health was intact.

There are things that jump out here to tell me this is a very badly managed compnay

first: you have 2 managers. Any company with any knowledge of decent HR practices and how to minimise stress will never, ever give their employees 2 line managers. It’s the difference between responsibility and accountability. You can have multiple people responsible for giving you work, but only one single set of overarching objectives set by your line manager who is accountable for your performance and ensuring you are treated in accordance to HR policies, the law etc. imho too many organisations do not understand you can have multiple people responsible, but only one person is held accountable. Too often no one is designated as accountable, and people mistake this. That is why you have 2 bosses and why that will always always end in tears

secondly : if they have concerns around who is making mistakes, they certainly can observe you. But to do it as a test, to “catch you out” with people observing in a way that would never be the case irl, is deliberately divisive and starts on premise that they do not trust their employees. Even quite stupid people will realise this. It is not ever going to get the best out of people. It will just make them stressed , and they will not perform the role in the way they normally would. The better way is task shadowing, manager announces there’s some concerns about consistency of results of works, wants to indenting training needs, and the more experienced team member will shadow each of you to both help coach you, but just as importantly to look for systemic failings in their training approach- is the documentation you follow not adequate or clear , do you have an documentation at all, was your instructor led or 1;1 on the job training programme adequate ? During that the “trainer” may pick up on individual issues , or even competency issue which could then be shared with manager, who should them raise it formally in your performance reviews sessions. Asap. Then discuss what you need to support and develop. You do not go around testing people in “surprise” scenario with multiple senior people watching.
to me this is grievance level stuff. It is borderline bullying- but not sure you should use that word and it probably wouldn’t stick in a grievance. I’d base it on that if you did have performance issues, this is not a “fair” test as you were falsely misled into thinking it was a meeting, and then you were being observed in false setting that was going to stress anyone and not reflect what was happening.

but first I would NOW put in writing to ALL those attending, including your other tested colleagues, AND the manager of any HR department that you forewarned your colleagues as you felt this was so unfair and false set up designed explicitly to “catch out” .

Then, on Monday book a meeting with your line manager, or both of them, state you want an explanation as to why they felt this was an appropriate and accurate way to determine who was making the mistakes. Ask them why they had not bought these mistakes to your attention, even if they didn’t know who, immediately and set up time with the more experienced colleague to actually , in a real and non confrontational task shadowing exercise to determine where you were going wrong and fix it. Reiterate that you are new, steep learning curve- if the training wasn’t formalised raise this too . Say clearly, that by setting this unannounced test it has made you stressed (use that word as they have duty of care under HSE to address this, that you feel deeply uncomfortable that they do not trust their staff. Use words “I” all the time , not “you”or “they”. Do not mention your other colleagues. Talk “I feel”, “I felt”, “I was uncomfortable “, “I felt it did not reflect my performance as it placed me under stress and anxiety”, “I am concerned about what the results will be used for “ etc. at end of meeting, send them email with a summary of what you said, they said and any outcomes. Ask them to confirm it’s an accurate reflection. Send a copy to HR if you have HR. KEEP YOUR COPY in case this goes to grievance.

I have worked for 40 years as a manager and senior leader in many companies- never heard of such shite behaviour and ridiculously stupid way to assess perform e or find out where mistakes are made. As someone said earlier, if this is computer work, there should be system to do an audit trail to indenting and gather data to find out who is making mistakes, but more importantly when and why- the when and why is what matters and they should fix first. The who they must regard as incidental until they’ve proved their systems, practices, and policies and training are fit for purpose.

Omg this is appalling!!!

not sure the structure of your business but if there is someone to complain to like HR you should complain. No serious employer would treat people like this.

And you were totally right to warn the others. Absolutely.

I agree with @Appleofmyeye2023
While I said this is training, thinking that I have trained staff in this way, I've always made sure it's been communicated what we're doing
E.g. there are errors, can you show me how you do x so I can identify if any further training is needed.
But also training is provided at the start, and I can use the system to identify who is making errors. If its multiple people then I just go ahead and organise a group training session where I don't watch anyone work, but may set tasks at the end for everyone to complete so I can make sure they've understood the training.

It needs to be communicated at the start of the session that there have been mistakes.

OP - if they were asking who was making mistakes, is this because you were saying you didn't make mistakes?

Would yiu feel able to give them feedback on this. Point out that you had zero training and that a training session with all present would be a productive experience, whereas the unexpected test felt like an artificial situation with undue pressure, and as the first of three to do it, you were the onky one to have no prior knowledge of what to expect.

That's just honest and fair. If they can't tolerate that feedback then they are mismanaging the team.

Ok
so why actively “lie” to employees as to purpose of meeting - this immediately put people in a stressed situation when they find out and feels that they do not trust their employees

why would you then have 2 observers watching you do everything during that session , who are managers and no nothing about how to do that task. It is not adding value to their time, or the fairness of the test, it is simply putting more stress on that employee

yes, you are right, and frankly stating blinking obvious, that a more experienced member of staff can observe more junior to coach and that is reasonable part of training.

But that isn’t what the OP is posting about. She is posting if it is unreasonable to feel stressed, unfairly treated, distrusted because they lied about the meeting, did not explain up front what the issue was or have discussed it in a 1:1 meeting first, and then she was in unrealistic and stressful environ,ent where she was being observed. NO ONE who is that new into their role, would like to do their job with 2 people leaning over their shoulder watching them- jeez it would piss me off and I’ve been doing my job for 40 years.

just no- this wasn’t training, job shadowing. It was a devisisve, underhand and completely stupid thing to do.

I would bring up your concerns about their supposed approach to "training" by marginalising you, humiliating you, failing to let you know in advance what their intentions were, meaning that it felt like they were setting you up to fail.

Had they raised concerns with you about your performance with specific examples of what mistakes were being made at the time and that they believed those mistakes were yours, it would have given you the chance to either accept the mistake and commit to addressing it, or state that it wasn't your mistake.

it sounds like their trying to push you out the door in a clumsy and harsh way.

they're

She was gaslighting you. Raise it in email first. State what I said earlier and that you are now very upset by the comment.

Well presumably she does feel sorry that you are upset about this, but she doesn't feel she has anything personally to apologise for, I kind of agree with her, she didn't set this up. Why don't you take it up with your managers, instead of rounding on a colleague? You seem unduly angry and hostile towards this "part timer" and you also repeatedly refer to her as a "part timer" and with a negative connotation, which is most unfair of you.

I think what happened is pretty appalling by the way, it indicates a toxic work environment to me. I am also baffled as to why they needed to test three people in order to find out who might be making mistakes. A mistake is surely attached to a logon id?

I've managed teams for years and I ave never needed to look over their shoulder and micromanage them on the pretext of it being "training". What a ridiculous and inept approach to staff management. Not least of all when it was their accountability to provide training to new starters which they failed to do and are now furiously back-pedalling by putting the blame on individuals who are trying to do their best in a shabby situation with clueless managers at the helm.

Ask her why if it was “training”,

1. you weren’t told in advance you’d be sat a test
2. you were being observed the whole time by bosses who didn’t know how to do the task and why was that, why were they actually there at all
3. point out exact
4. Cal auto the proportion of time she was coaching you vs testing you and ask if she would feel, in your position, that it was a constructive form of training

say that you felt she was gaslighting you to ask if you enjoyed it. Ask her if she feels “sorry you feel that way” , why?

I’m advance of your meeting I’d suggest;
Write bullet points of what you want to say, bring it in with you.

Keep it to Max 5 main points
Start opening sentences with a positive…I have been recruited as a competent professional. I am committed to learning and performing at a high level.
Finish with a positive. Thank you for meeting, I appreciate your time.

What do you want from this meeting? Best case, state that.

Do you have a friend you could practice a mock meeting with you?

If you feel yourself getting annoyed or flustered take a breath & reiterate one of your main points.

Use the power of silence, count to 3 in your head before answering any questions. If you’re not sure say I’ll need to think about that. Don’t be tempted to jump in & fill silences either.

Take notes

There’s nothing w with a competency test identifies knowledge and skills gaps but the way they went about but is completely wrong

your all fairly new to the company have you had regular supervisions and feedback

a general offer of training is a get out of jail card for them if there is any problems they’ll say we offered training and support and no one said they needed it

Make sure you have supervisions and reviews any issues should be backed up with training and support

Look for another job, op, this is shite on shite.

don’t tell them you’re looking, do what they want in meantime and leave when you’ve got a new position

join a union - immediately. Won’t help you with this, but too many people don’t realise that your average worker needs to be in a 7nion in case this sort of shifty legal hr stuff arises. If you were a member you’d be calling them for legal advice not posting here .

don’t join any organisation that gives you 2 bosses 🤦‍♀️

don’t join any company without asking about training for your role and ensuring you’ll be given formal training package to ensure you pass probabtionary period.

don’t join a company without a minimum of 1 dedicated person who is HR. Or if it’s a very small company , a boss who has informed themselves and conversant in uk employee law and can talk lucidly about policies and practices regarding your emplyment

and never join without a signed contract which relates to a written job description that you’ve seen and agreed to, that specifies exact tasks you’ll be doing and your overarching objectives of the role.

OP don't beat yourself up about getting angry. Water under bridge.

'Killing with kindness' sounds right. Just be sweetness and light in tone but stick to your guns on substance. Acknowledge that you spoke too sharply the other day if you think so - did you really? - but don't over-apologise.

And the colleague who encouraged you and then backpedalled - just forget about him. He should have tried to mediate in the moment if he really cared.

It's shit that so much of what would be assertive in a man is seen as shrill in a woman. Easy to get into no-win situations. Good luck!