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AIBU?

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Original poster

Would you be upset - it's a work one

145 replies

Ceci03 · 02/08/2023 15:47

I have 2 managers and 3 team mates. While I was away on leave last week, an invitation was sent to me and the 3 others inviting us to 'refresher training' yesterday. I only realised when I got into the office that 3 individual meeting requests had been sent. So it was just the 2 managers, me and a p/t member of staff who it was explained was there as she was an 'expert'. (She has worked here longer than the other team members). So anyway when I went into the meeting room (p/t member told me I would need my laptop) - it turned out to be a test. I was a bit shocked and tbh got very nervous. The p/t member of staff gave me a task, and I had to complete it in front of them with them all looking over my shoulder. I got caught out a couple of times - she had put things in to 'catch me out', although if I had had a few mins I would have 'got it'.

They then proceeded to say that it had been brought to their attention that a lot of mistakes were being made but they didnt know by who, so that's why I had to do the test. They kept asking me 'who is making mistakes' and I just said I hadn't noticed anything specific, and was certainly not going to name names, and that I looked on it as 3 of us were new since Jan and were on a steep learning curve, and we learned from our mistakes. It was extremely uncomfortable.

At the time I was a bit shell shocked and just went along with it. The next team member to go in - I gave him a heads up and said it wasnt a training session but a test. He spoke to me afterwards. He also was upset and said it felt extremely demeaning. Which I agree with. The third person due to sit this test was on a/l. She was back today and we warned her - gave her a chance to 'swot'. I think it was very sneaky and not nice - am I right to be upset about it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 16:58

Thanks for the support everyone. She said a few times "I'm sorry to feel that way" which to me is a non apology as it puts the problem firmly back to you?

OP posts:
Original poster
Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 16:59

Sorry typo she said "I'm sorry YOU feel
That way"

OP posts:
Illegallyblonder · 03/08/2023 17:01

Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 16:58

Thanks for the support everyone. She said a few times "I'm sorry to feel that way" which to me is a non apology as it puts the problem firmly back to you?

Yep, it's not an apology, it's saying I'm sorry you feel that but I don't necessarily consider I had anything to do with it and I am not apologising to you

Greenfree · 03/08/2023 17:08

Is she in the meeting with you on Tuesday? If she is then I would wait to apologize and just say upon reflection you feel your tone could have been better when you spoke during the team meeting. I would say yourself and your team felt victimised by been made to sit a test without any notice and having 3 people watch you do it. This was not helped when you felt she made a joke about you all having fun at the training as you felt she was not been sensitive to how you all felt. You'd all love some proper training and were disappointed as you were misled into believing this was actual training

Original poster
Ceci03 · 03/08/2023 18:14

No the part time expert is on hols for a week now. She doesn't get it though cos straight after I had had my say I mean rant Grin she said to the third person the woman who was away on Tues and missed the test "we need to arrange your training " and they talked about dates so I think she really believes she has done nothing and takes no responsibility for what happened and in fact intends doing it again.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ceci03 · 04/08/2023 11:38

Didn't sleep last night for thinking it all over. Am just worried I will lose my composure in the meeting with the managers on Tuesday. I need to stay cool calm and collected and not get emotional or angry. My friend said kill them with kindness which I think is a good idea. Annoying any other tips that you all use for keeping your cool

OP posts:
Ariela · 04/08/2023 13:17

I would go armed with a plan for them. I'd apologise for getting cross, but explain you're frustrated as you know mistakes were made that needed have happened in the first place, and didn't feel it fair to be tested - which made you nervous and make silly mistakes, when you'd understood it to be training which you were looking forward to .
Explain the training was extremely hazy when all of you joined, and that it's been difficult to find out how to do everything correctly, but as a team you've managed to work well together, and correct any mistakes between you that arose.
However, you're aware that process is not as efficient as knowing how everything should work at the start of employment, or method to follow if you need to do something new/that you don't do often.
Suggest that you write a training manual between you, which can act as a guide/tool to train up subsequent new staff, as well as a point of reference for existing staff when they need to tackle something new or refresh their knowledge.

GOOD LUCK!

Ariela · 04/08/2023 13:18

PS Write down what you're going to say as bullet points you can refer to & expand on. Will save you getting flustered or het up!

Ariela · 04/08/2023 13:20

Oh and top tip for getting cool is if you need thinking time respond with something like 'can you repeat that please?' or 'That's interesting you say that' or 'I need to have a think on this' Or 'just a moment...' and sip your water

momtoboys · 04/08/2023 14:29

Well, I admire you for speaking up. If she had said to me "well, I'm sorry you feel that way" I would have absolutely come unglued. I know you are worried but try not to be. Its over. What is done is done. You can apologize if you feel you must but you and the other employees deserve better.

Brefugee · 04/08/2023 14:42

Agree with pp. Take time before you're back in work, to list what you have told us here about your workplace:

that the training was on the job and not structured in a way that leads to efficiencies/good knowledge transfer

that the session was said to be "training" and you believed that until you were suddenly told it was a test, and the impression you got was they were trying to catch you out

And that you think that in order to avoid such issues in future they might want to consider:

  • reviewing their processes
  • cataloguing their processes in a document
  • based on the processes an onboarding schedule is produced for new starters
  • the onboarding and training schedule is to include the opportunity for trainer and trainee to sign off each completed module. That is: the trainer and the trainee agree that this module has been covered satisfactorily and that the new employee can now fly solo on this process. For each section of the process book
  • that you hold regular review meetings with the teams, including the new hires, to review the processes (new people often bring new insight, experienced employees can often say "yeah, that didn't work when we tried it because a, b and c" or "oh, that might work if we do x y z too")
  • that you identify something like "competencies" and hold regular sessions where the good, more competent/confident workers, share their tips and tricks and knowledge with those with less ability on the system/process (this is great for holiday/illness backup)
  • anything else you can think of

You mentioned that one of the managers did send a mail asking people to let them know if they had wishes/needs in terms of training? that is good. Think about how that could look for you. What can they offer you to make you more competent and efficient and better at spotting problems before they arise.

Good luck

Brefugee · 04/08/2023 14:45

also if someone comes at me with an unexpected "test" (or even training) i tend to ask if there is a grade (or pass/fail) what the consequences of the grading is, is there a manual, review notes or something that will come out of the session. And i always ask if there is a certificate.

And if someone says to me "I'm sorry you feel that way" my standard answer is "you should be sorry that your actions lead us to this situation".
But i am a) ancient and world-weary and don't care and b) good at my job, good at learning new jobs, and don't worry too much as long as i know i followed instructions.

ShinyYellowTeapot · 04/08/2023 15:13

Don't go on about her being part time. It undermines the seriousness of what you're saying. It makes you sound picky and looking for irrelevant details to complain about, when you've actually got many (more than) reasonable issues to raise. Really hope it goes well for you from here. They're the problem, not you!

Islandermummy · 04/08/2023 15:25

I'm not surprised you lost your temper.

Depending on how much you "lost it", I think - perhaps controversially - it might not be such a bad thing that you spoke up. I have at times in my career been pretty forthright when things are out of order, and I think sometimes managers actually like to know where they stand with employees, as it helps them manage. Better than two faced people who store up resentments and then just quit (or have a toxic environment with everyone unhappy but no one addressing it). It hasn't held me back or got me fired!... at least not so far. So try not to worry too much. You sound diligent and clever, and like you really care about the job.

That said, if you really think you flew off the handle, killing them with kindness might not be a bad idea.

Also is there a separate HR person you could chat to? To explain you felt bad about the way you gave feedback, but felt bad you and your teammates were placed in such a stressful (and divisive!) situation.

Main thing will be to keep your cool at Tuesday's meeting. Deep breaths. Apologise for your tone if need be, but reiterate that everyone felt really discouraged and perhaps there has been a misunderstanding or communication problem that can be cleared up. As a previous poster said, and constructive feedback you can give calmly would be great.

Brefugee · 04/08/2023 15:50

oh yeah - deffo don't manage part-time at all. Not a word about it.
It is perfectly possible to be the longest serving, best at the job person in a company and be part-time.

The complaint must be about the processes.

Twyford · 06/08/2023 08:34

Before the meeting, make yourself a bullet point list of your concerns about the training so you know you won't forget everything. Maybe include a reminder to yourself to keep calm and stop to think before replying to questions.

AlisonDonut · 06/08/2023 08:41

I'd probably start with pointing out the palaver they went through to trick the team into some weird training that wasn't training and yet none of you still have no idea what the mistakes were or what the point of it was. And then to ask if you need training, again how would you know if you need training if you don't know what it is that is missing from your actual work?

Purplecatshopaholic · 06/08/2023 09:07

ParisP · 02/08/2023 23:14

This is a prime example of poor management. The induction and probation should have included most of the training required to do the job. Post probation gaps in knowledge should have been identified and supported in a constructive manner, team learning or what ever. Should have been positive and supportive.

This. Your organisation has behaved very badly here.

grumpycow1 · 06/08/2023 09:08

I do find it a bit strange the way you mention ‘part-time’ . If they are long-standing and good at their job, they can absolutely be an expert at their job. Agree with the other poster who said not to make reference to them being part-time at your meeting.

on everything else I agree with you, hope the meeting goes well!

Eggandcresspleasemummy · 06/08/2023 09:14

Sorry if this has been asked before, but don’t you have your own ID’s when you log into the system? If so, they should know who did what, and when, and therefore where the mistakes are being made. Also, you said you had not done this particular task since February - so my understanding would be that you are not responsible for any mistakes if they were more recent than that. Sounds an absolutely batshit way to run an organisation and it’s creating a toxic, demotivated environment due to non existent training, blame culture and micro managing. I’d be off, sharpish !!

missingeu · 06/08/2023 09:14

I would ask for meeting agenda - that it gives you time to prepare. Make sure it's in writing.

Read up on their training policies.
Take notes or ask if someone with you, can take notes.

Sugarfree23 · 06/08/2023 09:31

Op I'd get working on your CV.

They sound complete bumholes, far too many chiefs massaging their own egos. What were they really hoping to achieve with the test, decide who to bump?

If they really wanted to do training they'd have been far quicker get the 3 of you together and do a training session.

I bet the three who were there before you left for the same reasons.

premiom · 06/08/2023 09:39

I think the relevance of mentioning that the expert is part-time is that there have only been limited opportunities for training and knowledge transfer by them which has not been taken into account by management. Either the company has to accept it will take twice as long for the newbies to get trained up or they bring in another 'expert' to pick up the training on the days the part-timer isn't working.

category12 · 06/08/2023 09:49

Is your meeting a formal meeting about the way you spoke to the colleague?

Are you in a Union? Join one.

Yujismum · 06/08/2023 09:55

ParisP · 02/08/2023 23:14
This is a prime example of poor management. The induction and probation should have included most of the training required to do the job. Post probation gaps in knowledge should have been identified and supported in a constructive manner, team learning or what ever. Should have been positive and supportive.

This with knobs on. Absolutely abysmal management. Instead of looking at your skills they need some management skills training. And yes I would be angry about this.