To not understand what she’s spending it on

[Idlovetoknow]

It’s my mother. She’s a pensioner and a widow, but she working. She cannot deal with her finances. She’s been on the phone tonight weeping over how much of a dire situation she’s in financially, but I don’t see how.

income from work: £1100 (after tax)
state pension: £800
widows pension: £1600 (think this is after tax too)
private pension: £200/300 (she was wooly on this)
so total income around £3600 a month

No mortgage, no rent, no grounds costs.
council tax £200 a month. Power £150 (let’s say 200 to round up) food and pet food £400, car £450 petrol £100, health insurance £200, phone £50, sky £50, pet insurance £80- that’s £1300 at an absolute max

i don’t understand. She’s not being frauded or taken advantage of, but i don’t understand. I try to talk to her for instance tonight when she rang frantic over money but she gets into such a tizz she can’t tell you anything. I’ve asked for months for all bills and bank statements to go over expenses but she can’t produce them

Anyone any ideas?

income from work: £1100 (after tax)
state pension: £800
widows pension: £1600 (think this is after tax too)
private pension: £200/300 (she was wooly on this)
so total income around £3600 a month

This is £43K pa.

She can't be struggling.

Something else is going on.

Where does she work?

I assume her own private pension is from another job and she was able to access her pension at 60, but it still working in another type of job now?

You need to go and see her. Look at her accounts online /take her to a bank and get statements for past 6mrhs

Till you look you don't know

Her poor doesn't sound like my poor

Iyswim

Look to see if any cash is take out and find out what it's for

She's prob spending money and not releising it

Holidays are costly

Flights are double what we paid before covid now

I think given your relationship and her personality, trying to sort this yourself is a non-starter. I'd practice saying 'oh dear, that sounds very hard, poor you' and suggest she goes into a bank branch to get advice, or possibly Step Change.

The only other option is to get her to give you power of attorney and access to her financial setup without her having to be involved at every step. That sounds like it would be painfully difficult, plus if your brother kicked off and asked for equal access there might be a risk he'd start helping himself from the account?

I think this is a good idea. You cannot ultimately give her any real help unless she's willing to show you her finances. At most it would be advice that may be irrelevant and that she won't take anyway. Then once you know what's happening, if you still want to be involved with resolving the problem, if there actually is one, that's up to you.

The only other option is to get her to give you power of attorney and access to her financial setup without her having to be involved at every step

POA only works if the person is unable to make decisions themselves (no capacity) OR has given express permission for their attorneys to take over their decisions.

And if the other person is willing to take on that huge task.

Subscriptions…..

Yeah sure - spending £4k a month between 2 people is not extravagant? Gulp.

I know I'm just a pleb - but that seems quite a massive amount of money to me for 2 people with very little outgoings. Perhaps you live in St Johns Wood though.

You need to just get the statements and sit and look through everything. Wondering and fretting will solve nothing.

We did this with MIL at Christmas, we managed to cut her budget, she could have cut it further but she won’t. Real issue is in the past from childhood till she stopped working she was really very well off. I do wonder is she has lost sense of money as well. I have known her for 30 years and she always give me 25 quid for my birthday, she is on a fixed income now, I don’t even need her 25 quid but in her head it’s probably still a decent amount.

My MIL version of poor is also not really poor but it’s all relative to what you are used to.

she won’t be able to manage downsizing mentally. She’s got another house she just let rot because it’s too much, she won’t be able to sort out getting a valuation and packing up the house, it’s too much for her.

Have I understood this OP?

She also owns another house that has fallen into disrepair and can't be bothered to sell it?

In all honesty, she sounds very immature and just incapable.

I think what you are getting is attention-seeking drama.

It's not about the money.
It's about 'poor me'- meaning she can't make financial decisions and is looking for some sympathy.

Also, don't underestimate how grief might affect her.

I am not sure from your posts but it appears your Dad died 2 years ago just before retiring. Sorry for that.

You need to be firm with her. Put your foot down.

Say- Look, Mum, I am happy to help with your finances but we need to work on this together. I will come over at (x time) at the weekend and you need to get all your bank statements out or set up the internet so I can see your online banking. If you aren't willing to do that, then I can't help and I am asking you to stop complaining about how you can't manage.'

She doesn’t show you her bank statements, so there are things she doesn’t want you to see. Whether it’s a QVC habit! Or savings or both. If she goes out, goes on holiday she could easily spend a lot on clothes.

In one hand and out the other. £50k should be ample for someone with no rent or mortgage and living in a property with that ctax banding for god sake!

How and why does she own another house?
Is it hers or was it in her name and your father's?

If there is another house that is just 'rotting' as you say, that needs sorting out.

Honestly, you need to be firmer. Either she accepts proper help, or you close down those conversations when she gets upset.

From what you have said, she sounds hopeless with money if she went against the advice of her financial advisor.

Is it possible she has another man around? All those 'singles' holidays (on her own) that were luxury holidays. That sounds quite odd to be honest.

Gambling? It's the panic and deseration that makes me think gambling.

No, you can use POA to do some things but not everything for a person financially, because I've done it. The person giving the power needs to tick the right box on the POA form.

We'd done POA years before and with her permission once she was struggling I started with a debit card and my own Internet login for my mum's bank account so that when she rang me in a panic about her affairs I could have a look at the statement and discuss it with her. I could also do a bit of legwork to pay bills if she wanted me to.

You can also if necessary provide evidence that they have permanently lost mental capacity for all financial decisions, and the bank will stop the person's access to their own bank account. I've never bothered to do that as following my mother's devastating stroke she is no longer capable of contacting her bank at all so there's no risk.

Honestly though in this case I would think very hard before taking that on. I think you'd be tearing your hair out very rapidly.

This sounds like a very difficult situation, OP, but I am not sure how helpful the conjecture on this thread can be for you.

I understand your reluctance to do this but unless you are going to cut her off the only course of action is to clear a weekend, leave the children with your DP and go and stay with her to go through absolutely everything. Only then will you know whether there is a genuine issue, or gambling, or fraud, or whether this is manipulation for attention that you can safely ignore with a clearer conscience.

Maybe the col increases have scared her, utility bills, food shop, insurance premiums etc. Lots of media hype can create anxiety if her income is fixed . She could officially nominate you to be able to make enquiries of bank, suppliers and so on on her behalf.

Honestly from what you’ve said, I’d refuse to discuss it with your mum when she brings it up, if she’s not prepared to accept some help/advice and to do that she needs to show you her statements if she wants help

I agree with the suggestion by @Anothernamethesamegame. If that doesn't work, tell her that the only alternative arrangement is that you get Lasting Power of Attorney over her financial matters. Would she be willing to hand over her financial affairs to you and you give her an allowance?

You mentioned that your Dad has passed away. I'm sorry for your loss. Can I ask if he was the financial responsible one in their relationship? If he was, then it really could be anxiety that she's not doing it right or something and she might simply need a "You're doing fine mum". Just a thought, because when my own dad died, it was the first time my mum had an ATM card, cheque book and full responsibility for all of the bills.

YANBU.
Could be that she wants your attention? She is just complaining and doing nothing about it when you offer her advice. Be serious if she wants your advice she has to show you bank statement for the last 6 months. No criticism there just to see if there is something that she is not aware off, like you did with the electric. Together you can see where the money goes and if that is correct and she is skint or if is just her freaking out because although in a good income position is less income than before.

I would think she will refuse to show them to you and she will carry on complaining because I'm inclined to think that she doesn't really have a money problem, unless there something shady there that she is hiding, and is more a loneliness attention, wrong expectations problem.

A decent amount of money goes every month in her account, you cant help her if she doesn't tells you for real when that money goes.

she's 68 not 98!

I am nearly her mum's age and do all of what you suggest for my Mum who is close to 100!

Her mum needs to get her act together.

This is easy to solve for your own mental health. As others said you NEED to look at bank statements before you start trying to piece it together. There is no other way to do it. Been there - done it before!

Don’t stand any hand wringing. A sizeable amount of people have tons in savings but that isn’t counted overall. That is put aside for a rainy day and it’s hailing outside!

Otherwise it will be a big attention seeking drama for her and she also sounds overwhelmed by home ownership and day to day living.

Say you will help but not without seeing bank statements. Don’t waste anymore time on this.

I could, and do, easily rattle through that each month with little 'to show'.

If she's got a pcp, regular holidays, likes to dress at the shops you mention and does not have to account to anyone what she spends, then I can see how she can end the month on a minus. It's ridiculous, but pretty easy.

All you can do is have convo where you draw up a budget and ask her to aim for this each month.

If she still owns the other property, could you help her sell it as a do-er upper so it's one less thing that's causing her anxiety and she sees a boost to her finances (I know she may fritter the money, but it doesn't sound like she's at risk of actually needing it for essentials any time soon).

Should be doable without too much effort from either of you, just tell an estate agent that it needs selling for whatever it will sell for - put it up for auction if needs be and all she will need to do is sign a few things.

Yeah I'd do that.

@SouthernLassies I agree but if she is overreacting and hysterical there may be an underlying mh condition or physical illness affecting her ability to rationalise , impulse control and make sensible decisions,