To not understand what she’s spending it on

[Idlovetoknow]

It’s my mother. She’s a pensioner and a widow, but she working. She cannot deal with her finances. She’s been on the phone tonight weeping over how much of a dire situation she’s in financially, but I don’t see how.

income from work: £1100 (after tax)
state pension: £800
widows pension: £1600 (think this is after tax too)
private pension: £200/300 (she was wooly on this)
so total income around £3600 a month

No mortgage, no rent, no grounds costs.
council tax £200 a month. Power £150 (let’s say 200 to round up) food and pet food £400, car £450 petrol £100, health insurance £200, phone £50, sky £50, pet insurance £80- that’s £1300 at an absolute max

i don’t understand. She’s not being frauded or taken advantage of, but i don’t understand. I try to talk to her for instance tonight when she rang frantic over money but she gets into such a tizz she can’t tell you anything. I’ve asked for months for all bills and bank statements to go over expenses but she can’t produce them

Anyone any ideas?

This is so similar to my MIL!

Turned out she was spending a fortune buying jewellery off TV channels.

She said she only bought the odd necklace or earrings, but in reality it was loads. One ring cost £450!

She spends a ridiculous amount on plants too.

Exactly and many have histrionic personality disorder! 😅
OP already said her mum was abusive towards her dad. What comes around, goes around. I wouldn't want tk visit either!

I'm sorry, OP, but please re-read what you have written here and think about what you would say if you had a good friend who said this to you.

Please also re-read what @BusMumsHoliday wrote above: On the other hand, you could just... Let her get on with it. You sound like you find your mum difficult, and you're not obliged to help her sort this out. She's not in danger of being homeless and it sounds like bills are being paid. What happens if you stop trying to sort it and just say, "hmm sounds tough," and change the subject? (My guess is she might find something else to fret about so this isn't about money at all.)

The bottom line is that your mother seems in no danger of being skint. She just seems to be trying to claim your attention.

You can't be sure she isn't being defrauded unless you check her statements - all bank and credit cards (which might be set up to automatically pay).

Credit card fraud can happen to anyone. And if they get away with it they'll keep doing it.

Elderly women especially are pray for your roofs got damaged £500 from me to fix it, type fraud too.

Both I and my mum have a friend each like this. They are loaded. It's crying over what they expected to have/the privilege they are used to, vs. their still very privileged reality.

If there's no other issue at hand, I'd say that's likely it.

It’s rather grating in the current climate to hear op’s mum crying about money whilst also enjoying two holidays abroad, shopping in boutiques, dripping in jewellery and treating herself to a new car every year to park outside her enormous house. No wonder she’s fallen out with some of her friends!

And Since when is a 60 year old classed as “elderly” ?

No doubt the loss of her husband is contributing to her current meltdowns/anxiety. I very much doubt this is early onset dementia which is incredibly rare.
More likely she’s never had to consider the cost of anything (as 99% of the population do) and doesn’t like it.

I wonder if she expects you to give her money. It sounds like the wailing and moaning it is a tactic she is deploying to get money even though there is no hope of it working, just because she doesn't have any other weapons in her arsenal.

I would stop worrying about her, tbh. She's loaded, and being histrionic for no reason. If she wanted to change, she would, but she wants a solution where she doesn't have to think or take responsibility.

You need to go with her for a financial discussion with her bank or financial advisor. She should know how her statement looks and how everything is managed.
You need to know as well so you are of assistance and reassurance. Your mother could be missing out on superannuation top ups or other tax reducing payments.
Make the appointment, with her blessing, and go with her.

It also could be that she is being taken advantage of.
Does she pay a finaincial advisor?
Do donations come automatically out of her account for charities that she can no longer afford?

Honestly, it sounds like she's struggling to adjust to being alone and making financial decisions. she also sounds like she's trying to manipulate you. I think you need to start cutting off those conversations. Just say that unless she's willing to let you see bank statements there's no point in even talking about it.

I don’t know what’s going on with your DM, OP, but honestly you have the patience of a saint putting up with her. She’s sounds totally insufferable. How have you not either washed your hands of her, or told her to grow up and deal with her problems herself??! You deserve a medal, truly.

Sit her down. Make a spreadsheet showing outgoings and incoming.

maybe find a budget app to help her.
or banks offer financial counselling.

With the best will in the world, because you sound like an extremely tolerant and rational person, have you considered absolutely losing your shit with her? Nothing else has had any impact so far and while you risk her wrath and self-pity, there is a - albeit slight - chance that she may reflect on how fortunate she actually is and how it might be necessary to curtail her frivolous spending somewhat - you know, like normal people do...

OP if your mother is really short of money or in debt, she has another house she can sell or let out!

Debt is possible, she might not be calling it credit card debt. It's also possible she's still paying into savings accounts and thinks she's needs to do that. It's also possible she's giving your brother money, but doesn't count that as he isn't just "someone". It's also possible she's spending money on handbags and then panicking. It has dementia. We can't solve this for you without more info, any more than you can solve it for her. You'll need to spend a weekend with her and sort out what the problem is.

If you're positive there's no gambling/compulsive shopping/alcohol addiction, this sounds more like a mental health thing than real financial problems.

MIL was widowed at 70. She has ferretted money her whole life and it would be nice to see her spend it. She lives very poor. However, despite being a former HT she does not and will not deal with her finances. FIL did all that. She will not and has not opened the post since he died (except cards and stuff). DH visits monthly to keep her organised and has PoA.

If she is being vague and you truly want to get to the bottom of it, take a few days off, leave the kids with your DH and go and see her. Make an appointment in advance with her bank and then go through all the outgoings and spending habits with the bank. She won't have to find statements and the answers will be infront of you.

Romance scam??

If she keeps saying she wants financial advice, and given that you a) can't provide that and b) it's challenging for you to be drawn into this, is there any mileage in booking her an appointment with an actual financial advisor? She might possibly defer to their authority enough to produce the emissive bank statements etc, and they'd be someone in a better position to then advise her which is what she's saying she wants.

It seems like the easiest thing to do - next time she's at yours - is spend 20 minutes setting up internet banking (if she doesn't already have it), then download an expense tracking app like Mint. Don't faff around with paper statements and spreadsheets.

She just can't manage her money. She's used to a huge income and spending what she likes but your Dad probably had a good handle on it.

I've never earned a great deal but I am lucky not to be in debt and have built up very modest savings. I just don't go 'shopping' a lot and I don't buy much shit. Rarely have my hair done (by choice), do my own gel nails, use loads of savings apps etc.

My boss takes home slightly more than your Mum does and never has a penny to her name in disposable income. She has upgraded her decent car to a more exclusive one that she absolutely didn't need to. She bought an expensive house when her previous home was lovely and she spends money like water travelling overseas and buying expensive items. She's always skint and I doubt she has any savings. It makes my eyes water watching her spend.

Also my Mum has always been cosseted by my Dad and wouldn't know where to begin controlling spending if anything were to happen to him. She's always shopping and buying shit she doesn't need.

Lots of them are like this. It's not dementia, it's self absorption, entitlement, stinginess, and cruelty.

This reminds me when I was visiting my mum
& one of her neighbours popped in. I was complaining about the cost of summer holidays & she said "yes, they are so expensive, we couldn't afford them so that's why we bought a holiday home, sometimes you have to compromise" 😆

She said she was £400 short this month and then said she was on the verge of a mental breakdown

Sounds awful for you. Could it be the pressure of being responsible is getting to her?

After my own DF died, I was my DM's chancellor. Set up POA (both kinds) but actually just used online access to her bank account. Had all her bills redirected to my own address

Meant I could keep an eye remotely and she didn't have to. Didn't stop her panicking and saying a big bill had come in every time a statement arrived but with online access I at least knew the real picture.

I can imagine it's quite easy to spend £4,000+ a month.

Hair cut and colour
Beauty treatments, nails etc
Beauty products (Lancôme moisturizer is £300+)
New clothes, fancy handbag
Meals out with friends
Gifts

There will always be random household expenses to pay as a single person. The boiler might break down, an emergency plumber might need to be called out.

You also missed things from you list like petrol which is v expensive at the moment.

That's all without booking any expensive first class holidays.

This may have already been said, but how is she getting both a widow’s pension and her own state pension?

Pre 2017 I believe you got the widows pension until you reached pensionable age yourself (this happened to my mum; she received my dad’s ‘widow’s pension’ which then stopped when she hit 65, and was replaced by her own state pension). Post 2017 I think you get widow’s pension for 18 months following the death of a spouse, but it’s only for this short duration of time.

Is she definitely still getting both? Apologies if this has already been highlighted.