In demand teachers should be on a higher pay grade

[Winterday1991]

Teachers who have high level degrees from good quality universities and teach in demand subjects such as maths, physics, chemistry etc should be paid at a rate equivalent to what their peers would earn in the private sector. For example starting salaries of £50k.

As I understand it, the current teacher pay scale means that drama, music teachers and low quality graduates are paid the same as high quality teachers. As teaching has low barrier to entry for graduates, and there is a shortage of teachers for certain subjects surely salaries should be treated as they would be in the private sector and paid the market rate. Why does the government not implement this to get more high quality graduates into teaching?

I do however know some very good teachers from Russell group unis who studied stem subjects and they are paid the same as the low quality teachers.
How do you know? What’s your role?

I would be fascinated to learn how you judge a teacher to be good or low grade?

Oh dear, stupid has arrived spouting the old bs of those that don't know.

And if you want the actual phrase its

Those that can do, those that understand teach.

My friends say there are too many wanting to teach PE and softer subjects. They often take on additional duties such as H of H or head of year, deputy or other things because they have so much time and less to do.

I have worked with teachers that have, in your words, high grade degrees and I can assure you it doesn’t make them good teachers at all!
I also know TAs that are excellent teachers when covering classes that unfortunately don’t get recognised for their work.

"Or maybe maths and science degree holders don't go into teaching because they don't want to be teachers?"

No it's because it's not adequately remunerated.

With each comment you make you sound more and more of a dickhead.

I think I know what you’re trying to say.

There is a shortage of physics teachers because if you have a degree in physics you can earn double what you can in teaching.

You’ll also be actually doing the work of a physicist, instead of managing behaviour and trying to teach students who don’t want to be there.

So yes I do think there should be incentives to get more specialists to work in schools.

IME if you teach a non core subject like art or history you are expected to take on another subject which increases their workload and so I don’t know how this would work with pay.

I am shocked about the pay that college lecturers get and I definitely think this should be changed.
I think it’s around £22-24k to teach A-levels.
They also get less holidays apparently and they now have to deal students who have to stay in education and so behaviour has also got worse.

I always wanted to work in a college but I’ve some bad things about it and I don’t think it’s worth it for the amount they get.

I dont believe the university you graduate from has much impact on whether or not you have the ability to teach to a high standard.

If you think the only reason people don't go into teaching is money then you're crazy. I have a maths degree, a 1st. I'm an accountant. You couldn't pay me double my wage to become a teacher, not even triple. I've seen the amount of work, stress and unhappiness teachers can go through. Teachers are leaving in droves and it isn't all about the money. But sure, talk as if you're speaking for all maths and science graduates. You must know better than all of them.

High academic achievement in no way relates to being a good teacher, and frankly if money is the motivator then there are better vocations.

FOTTFSOFATFOSM
presumably this is some work expeience trainee from the department for education scoping out opinion. Offensive post

I'm sticking up for teachers and saying that the good and in demand ones should be paid more fgs.

Curious so what scale would teachers in SEN schools get given they teach most subjects to secondary level?

I have two teachers I remember from my years at school quite some time ago now, the first was a primary school teacher who fostered my love of maths and reading the second my secondary school teacher for English both had a presence beyond anything that can be taught that drew everyone in the class to learn.

I think YABU to think that all subjects matter and that engaging students is less important than a degree from a top uni

@Winterday1991 good you explain how you judge whether or not a teacher is good. Thanks.

I actually think this is the same poster arguing on other threads that they know more about insurance than everyone else in the UK and wanting to take propranolol when pregnant, just with a name change. Same stupid response style and argumentative manner.

That’s really not how anyone takes on a role with responsibility. There’s an application process and the. They are given a bit )nit much) more time. No teachers have spare time.

You seem to think someone is a "good teacher" because they went to a Russell group university and did a STEM subject.

Obviously their personality and actual teaching skills have fuck all to do with it then.

1. There is no money.
2. There is no money.
3. I've taught A-levels in two STEM subjects, and, more recently, a humanities subject. The humanities one is far harder to teach (and essays are a pain to mark compared to worksheets). FWIW, I have a bunch of degrees at various levels from "good" universities and I don't think that's made much of a difference; maybe only at the very highest levels, but that's not the bulk of any teacher's job.

Of course it does, but they should be judged by the same standards as in the private sector. The teaching profession needs to be pulled up and make it a competitive option for the best graduates.

OP, you make the mistake of thinking only good subject knowledge equals a good teacher. It is such a small part of the job. But what do I know, lowly music teacher here. Handsomely paid though as I’m valued by my school.

@Winterday1991 could you explain to me what you mean by a good teacher?

May I make a bold suggestion that might encourage more of the best (how does one determine that?) graduates to become teachers.

Stop attacking teachers and calling them low grade.

'As teaching has low barrier to entry for graduates...'

Whoah there, cowboy! Have you looked into this? Yes, there are a variety of routes in but all require grades C or above in core subjects at GCSE, a degree AND you have to pass a core skills test that's bloody tricky (at least if you're going to be working in state schools).

Denigrate the profession much?

You don’t need a top degree to teach GCSEs, you need to be a good teacher and understand your subject to that level.
Having a 1st from Oxford in Maths won’t necessarily make you a great teacher. Also you might argue you might get bored teaching that level. I knew a HOD who left because he hated teaching GCSE and wanted to teach A levels because he was bored of not feeling challenged.
Sometimes teaching a less popular subject can be harder because there’s less support, fewer colleagues, your HOD might not be the same subject as you. I worked for a MAT where there were regional Directors, there were a lot of them for subjects like maths and English, they often get their own TAs for the department. If you taught something like geography there might be the odd Humanities Director, rarely seen.

I can’t imagine it would be great for morale either.