In demand teachers should be on a higher pay grade

[Winterday1991]

Teachers who have high level degrees from good quality universities and teach in demand subjects such as maths, physics, chemistry etc should be paid at a rate equivalent to what their peers would earn in the private sector. For example starting salaries of £50k.

As I understand it, the current teacher pay scale means that drama, music teachers and low quality graduates are paid the same as high quality teachers. As teaching has low barrier to entry for graduates, and there is a shortage of teachers for certain subjects surely salaries should be treated as they would be in the private sector and paid the market rate. Why does the government not implement this to get more high quality graduates into teaching?

I work in a school.

I don't think the brightest make the best teachers.
There is "something" that makes the kids engage, and allows you to have absolute control of a class of teens. It's not the most extensive knowledge. It's almost an energy and level of confidence.
We've been through a load of substitute teachers in the last year. The best guy was reasonably educated, but just had a presence in the room. The kids responded to him, and so he could teach practically anything.

Teachers, in general, are under paid for the educational requirements and skills required (and, yes, I'm factoring into this that they have a contract that includes over twice the leave of a typical job).

Seriously? Primary teachers have to get kids to the required level of education to progress and succeed in secondary education. If anything I’d say their job is much harder than a single subject teacher.

My daughter attends what you would probably consider a ‘lower quality university’ however she chose this course because more than a third of the year is taught on placements compared to the top three courses in the field. She will leave with quite full CV in addition to her degree.

She also knows it is the right career for her having now had the benefit of first hand experience teaching and planning classes, one placement has already offered her a future job.

Academic ability is only half of the skills required to become a good effective teacher.

You do realise, don't you, that without great primary teachers, the whole perilous system is completely fucked?

Or do you think it's just sand and water and carpet time?

No, Primary teaching is MUCH harder.

God no, it's much harder.

All teachers should start on 40K minimum, regardless of degree and subject. Pay should then progress by at least 5% each year of service unless they are a poor performer. We need more GOOD teachers for sure, my sons aren't at all inspiring or encouraging...so we need to attract higher quality candidates...and keep them via continuous progression and reward.

I'm one of these grads you talk about positively (not on £50k tho), but I would make a truly, truly terrible teacher. All teachers should have better pay. And life would be incredibly shit without the arts. So I reckon YABU.

Higher degree level doesn’t make a better teacher. Can I ask where this money is coming from? Already schools are making staff redundant or aren’t replacing staff because they don’t have enough funding.

I’m afraid this comment only demonstrates your own stupidity. You really have no clue about teaching, whether at primary or secondary.

Snap, Meceme! Teaching A-level Further Maths is a piece of piss compared to say, teaching a class of 5 year olds how to read and write. Or getting a class of 5 year olds to do anything, tbh. Primary teachers are like magicians.

You are correct, primary teaching is not equivlanet to teaching Chemistry and Maths, which experience tells me are fairly simple to teach at A-level, whereas primary teaching is several orders of magnitude more difficult.

Stupid comment primary teaching is not equivalent to teaching chem, maths etc up to Alevel standard.

Absolutely agree as it's significantly harder to teach primary well.

A level students generally a/ Want to be there and b/ want to learn their subject. Plus they can all read and write to a decent level.

Whilst we're at all, I would also argue that teaching EYFS is much harder than teaching Year 6 (having done both). You couldn't pay me enough to go back to either EYFS or Year 1.

Hahahahha sorry I don’t mean to laugh but I’m that graduate and my starting salary was lower than a teachers and now its very similar to many teachers I know with the same level of experience.

I don’t know that many people on 50k in our area of private employment unless they are management.

I scraped through my degree but have been an excellent teacher for 23 years. All teachers should be valued and paid according to the TPS. Anything less will create division and demoralise staff. It also won't help recruitment and retention.

there is a shortage of teachers for certain subjects surely salaries should be treated as they would be in the private sector and paid the market rate

No. Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach

Utter bollocks.
Old fashioned, hackneyed bollocks at that.

I teach (mostly) A-level. It's very difficult to recruit to my subject (not any of the ones mentioned).

There is NO amount of money that would persuade me to teach primary. Those guys are impressive!

Like most teachers I suspect, as long as the pay and conditions are reasonable, I'm not particularly motivated by money.

You do not want teachers (or artists or scientists come to that) overly motivated by money.

Gillian's been on the wine and signed up to Mumsnet I see...

Rishi? Is that you?

For some teachers that is a fair comment. The low barriers to entry and relatively good starting salary attracts poor candidates.

I do however know some very good teachers from Russell group unis who studied stem subjects and they are paid the same as the low quality teachers.

@cardibach exactly. Such a lazy, boring phrase, trotted out like a reflex by the chronically unthoughtful.

Or maybe maths and science degree holders don't go into teaching because they don't want to be teachers?

Then why are so many graduates leaving teaching within 5 years and going into the private sector?

Why are English teachers worth esa!