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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What's your opinion on religions that don't think you, if single, should have a 'love life' even with yourself?

250 replies

porridgeisbae · 29/07/2023 16:50

Just that really.

I converted to Catholicism but I think that bit's a bit harsh.

OP posts:
pointythings · 04/08/2023 15:34

Well, if you've achieved one thing, OP, it's that you have affirmed more powerfully than anything I have seen in a looooong time that atheism is the thing for me.

Original poster
porridgeisbae · 04/08/2023 15:42

@pointythings Lol I would've been put off by it as well until about 18 months ago. :)

OP posts:
pointythings · 04/08/2023 17:40

@porridgeisbae the difference between us is that I would not change my faith over a man, some pretty prayers and some nice buildings. I've been an atheist for almost 20 years and was agnostic before that. It would take something pretty damn seismic for me to change what I believe, especially given religion's overall record on the oppression of women and LGBT people.

astora · 04/08/2023 22:12

porridgeisbae · 04/08/2023 15:27

Some things to think about here, thanks all.

prayed for the desires for women to go away. It took years since my conversion but they did. Just like that. I knew I couldn't do it in my own strength. It was the work of the Holy Spirit.

True via God's grace anything is possible. It's also the fruits of the Spirit.

People are mad on masturbation these days

@fullbloom87 Yes I mean I'm not really as 'addicted' as some. Maybe once or twice a week. But it's still not ok.

Well that's disturbing. People in 2023 still believe you can pray away the gay.

@Psyclops Going by the PP's experience it does work for some people. I think it's easier being attracted to both men and women, of course. The person can focus more on one rather than the other.

Sorry, don't buy it. The whole notion that you can pray away the gay is extremely damaging.

loopyloutoo · 04/08/2023 22:13

porridgeisbae · 29/07/2023 16:50

Just that really.

I converted to Catholicism but I think that bit's a bit harsh.

Gosh you don't often hear of anyone converting to Catholicism - can I ask your reasons for doing so if not too intrusive?

I think Catholicism is just not in keeping with modern society whatsoever. I am one, so I adapt.

astora · 04/08/2023 22:28

loopyloutoo · 04/08/2023 22:13

Gosh you don't often hear of anyone converting to Catholicism - can I ask your reasons for doing so if not too intrusive?

I think Catholicism is just not in keeping with modern society whatsoever. I am one, so I adapt.

Show quote history

A man and pretty architecture apparently.

Troubledwords · 05/08/2023 08:35

Convert to Catholicism as well, and yes there's a lot of rules to get your head around, especially ones that are not the popular opinion now, like masturbation, surrogacy, abortion etc. However over time I do see why these are there and how they benefit us and celibacy has become easier.

pointythings · 05/08/2023 09:23

@Troubledwords the rules on abortion are one of the main reasons why I abhor the Catholic Church. This is the organisation that excommunicated a 9 year old girl who had got pregnant by rape because she had an abortion that probably saved her life. Disgusting.

astora · 05/08/2023 10:21

Troubledwords · 05/08/2023 08:35

Convert to Catholicism as well, and yes there's a lot of rules to get your head around, especially ones that are not the popular opinion now, like masturbation, surrogacy, abortion etc. However over time I do see why these are there and how they benefit us and celibacy has become easier.

I can't think of a single benefit to banning masturbation or abortion.

BravoMyDear · 05/08/2023 10:42

TeamRR · 30/07/2023 22:29

No one is quite the expert like the recent convert.

Show quote history

Thank you for saying nicely what I was thinking (not so nicely!)

Hestu · 05/08/2023 18:46

Troubledwords · 05/08/2023 08:35

Convert to Catholicism as well, and yes there's a lot of rules to get your head around, especially ones that are not the popular opinion now, like masturbation, surrogacy, abortion etc. However over time I do see why these are there and how they benefit us and celibacy has become easier.

What benefits?

crushercreel · 06/08/2023 22:04

Annaishere · 30/07/2023 04:52

I suppose the aim of religion is to make us holy

So you can be holy and also masturbate? Or holy and bisexual for that matter?

pointythings · 06/08/2023 22:20

The only way to be holy is to be Swiss cheese.

Original poster
porridgeisbae · 07/08/2023 02:36

celibacy has become easier.

Thanks for your post @Troubledwords . Is there anything in particular that helped you find celibacy/chastity easier? Or just practice/time?

This is the organisation that excommunicated a 9 year old girl who had got pregnant by rape because she had an abortion that probably saved her life. Disgusting.

@pointythings Some countries are more hardcore than others- I think that was in Brazil in 2009? Unless you mean another case? The girl wasn't excommunicated actually, as she was not an adult and not in control of the process of any of those decisions. There was understandable uproar of course and then her mum and the doctor were un-excommunicated.

They changed it so that at the moment any Priest can absolve abortion.

OP posts:
StarlightLady · 07/08/2023 06:01

I would not subscribe to anything that tries to tell me who l can have sex with, when l can have sex and that women are inferior.

pointythings · 07/08/2023 08:22

@porridgeisbae I think it was El Salvador, which puts women in jail for 30 years if they are suspected of having an abortion. There are women serving jail terms there who have had natural miscarriages. The Church does nothing to prevent this. The RC church allows itself to be used as a cover for practices that kill tens of thousands of women worldwide every single year. I might respect them a little more if they accepted that banning abortion kills women and grew the fuck up about it.

The diktat of celibacy was not part of the original church, it was a 12th century invention. Enforced celibacy is what gave us sexual abuse by priests. Yes, it also happens in the Anglican community - but not on anything like that scale. Let priests (and everyone else) marry and have sex with a consenting adult person. If the RC church can't see that its practices cause harm, they do not deserve any respect. What their holy book says is irrelevant - the Bible was written by people, for people, translated, redacted and edited to support the political powers of the time.

Original poster
porridgeisbae · 07/08/2023 14:02

The diktat of celibacy was not part of the original church, it was a 12th century invention

If you mean that I mentioned celibacy when replying to the PP, we were talking about celibacy for single people. I'dve thought that was always a requirement, until modern 'progressive' churches decided to pick and choose what they wanted out of the Bible.

Jesus was single and so was the apostle Paul, so I can see why they might think Priests shouldn't be married. The practice of celibacy in the Catholic Priesthood happened frequently for hundreds of years before it was officially codexed; it can often take them a long time to get round to happening to officially mention things. For instance, the assumption of Mary has been a long term belief, but was only officially declared by the Pope in 1950.

Enforced celibacy is what gave us sexual abuse by priests

No, lots of people (including almost all Priests) are celibate and don't become abusers. The sexual abuse in the priesthood was partly because there are people who will abuse power, but also there were people being allowed into the Priesthood who shouldn'tve been. They didn't have a calling to celibacy or the Priesthood really, they maybe just were there due to family/church pressure. Or were just plain abusers from the start. No one should've let them get away with it of course.

Some people have a natural inward calling to lifelong celibacy so it's easier for them.

And if someone really has a vocation from God to be a Priest, He maybe makes it a bit easier for them as it's part of their being part of the Priesthood.

OP posts:
crushercreel · 07/08/2023 14:17

porridgeisbae · 07/08/2023 14:02

The diktat of celibacy was not part of the original church, it was a 12th century invention

If you mean that I mentioned celibacy when replying to the PP, we were talking about celibacy for single people. I'dve thought that was always a requirement, until modern 'progressive' churches decided to pick and choose what they wanted out of the Bible.

Jesus was single and so was the apostle Paul, so I can see why they might think Priests shouldn't be married. The practice of celibacy in the Catholic Priesthood happened frequently for hundreds of years before it was officially codexed; it can often take them a long time to get round to happening to officially mention things. For instance, the assumption of Mary has been a long term belief, but was only officially declared by the Pope in 1950.

Enforced celibacy is what gave us sexual abuse by priests

No, lots of people (including almost all Priests) are celibate and don't become abusers. The sexual abuse in the priesthood was partly because there are people who will abuse power, but also there were people being allowed into the Priesthood who shouldn'tve been. They didn't have a calling to celibacy or the Priesthood really, they maybe just were there due to family/church pressure. Or were just plain abusers from the start. No one should've let them get away with it of course.

Some people have a natural inward calling to lifelong celibacy so it's easier for them.

And if someone really has a vocation from God to be a Priest, He maybe makes it a bit easier for them as it's part of their being part of the Priesthood.

You're the one picking and choosing here. Not all catholics are homophobic. You chose to be.

ChocolateCinderToffee · 07/08/2023 14:18

I think that the people who set such rules - whether within the framework of a religion or not - know NOTHING about human beings and have hang-ups about sex.

Original poster
porridgeisbae · 07/08/2023 14:29

You're the one picking and choosing here. Not all catholics are homophobic. You chose to be.

@crushercreel It's not homophobia but sadly it's in the Catechism that same sex sex is a sin. I would love if I could just shag men and women. Grin The Catechism is the official document outlining what Catholics believe. If people endorse homosexual sex then they are out of Communion with the Church really, or definitely not believing what Catholics believe. We're not a Church where people can create their own view outside of what the Catechism says.

OP posts:
VeridicalVagabond · 07/08/2023 14:39

Surely this is just rage bait or a troll? No one is actually stupid enough to convert to a religion, change or deny their sexuality, and follow religious rules that literally worsen their life for a man? A man who probably has no idea this has been done?

Nah I don't believe it. In order to maintain my faith in humanity, I can't.

StarlightLady · 07/08/2023 14:43

When people talk about others taking selective bits from the Bible, doesn’t it say somewhere that we should sacrifice an ox once a week? Just saying!

crushercreel · 07/08/2023 14:45

porridgeisbae · 07/08/2023 14:29

You're the one picking and choosing here. Not all catholics are homophobic. You chose to be.

@crushercreel It's not homophobia but sadly it's in the Catechism that same sex sex is a sin. I would love if I could just shag men and women. Grin The Catechism is the official document outlining what Catholics believe. If people endorse homosexual sex then they are out of Communion with the Church really, or definitely not believing what Catholics believe. We're not a Church where people can create their own view outside of what the Catechism says.

"Sadly". There it is again, acting like it's not you're fault, like you didn't make the descision to follow these teaching. At least own that you're homophobic. It's pathetic really.

Original poster
porridgeisbae · 07/08/2023 15:39

@crushercreel The Bible too, outright spells out that God is sadly not ok with homosexuality. It says so very clearly. So yes, if people ignore that then they are the ones picking and choosing what they believe out of the Bible.

OP posts:
pointythings · 07/08/2023 15:48

@porridgeisbae the Bible was, as I have said, written by people, for people, in order to control people. It's the world's worst piece of incoherent, inconsistent fiction. Biblical literalists have basically chosen to set aside their critical thinking abilities in order to follow blindly in the footsteps of those whose only desire is to oppress. Sadly it's how most religions operate. It takes a certain mindset to actively choose that, and I really do wonder about the people who do. Choosing that path for a man, nice buildings and pretty prayers lacks something, probably spirituality. I know people who have converted to some form of Christianity and they have thought it over so much more deeply.