To think there should be a ULEZ concessions scheme?

[declutteringAgain]

For those on very low incomes affected by this ?
Either a reduced rate or a certain number of ‘free’ trips per UC assessment period or similar?

I was thinking about this the other day. Often people with less money must have a lower carbon footprint. Smaller house, less money to heat it, less travelling, less likely to chose schools for children with expensive commutes, less likely to be able to afford one (and certainly two) cars.

On the back of another thread I read today I googled the carbon footprint of a dog and I was shocked to learn it is similar to a 4x4 SUV. Not dog bashing at all - just think that ULEZ needs to be part of a bigger conversation. Having an electric car must help but it I worry it’s becoming a tick box for the affluent which makes people feel they are solving the climate emergency when actually they are off setting the saving elsewhere.

On the back of another thread I read today I googled the carbon footprint of a dog and I was shocked to learn it is similar to a 4x4 SUV.

I read similar! Apparently a dry food diet or even better vegetarian (which apparently is ok for dogs) makes a big reduction to the footprint.

But don’t forget that ULEZ is principally about local air quality, not carbon emissions.

ULEZ should be abolished altogether. Having a car is as essential nowadays as water and air. It's just another form of daylight robbery.

Oh dear. ULEZ doesn't ban cars, it just deters people in the most polluting cars from driving in the areas of highest pollution.

Blimey. I live in the existing ULEZ and don't drive a car. I guess that makes my life expectancy about another five minutes. Better start writing letters to my loved ones.

But if you live in the Square Mile and you own a car you shouldn't be penalised.

What, you have an emergency every week??? That's really bad luck. Most people don't even have one emergency per year!

You must not have kids then. I think it would be a real struggle for someone with kids to not have a car.

I'm in the existing ULEZ, not the new one, and have two DC. We have these big red things called buses. And trains that go underground!

We don't use public transport if we can help it. It's too hot and crowded.

So public transport is too hot, but air pollution is great?

It's not really the same as having someone's armpit in your face and it being 40 degrees in the tin can when it's 30 outside.

You don't feel the immediate affects of air pollution in the same way. And I don't think our air pollution is that bad. Just look at Beijing.

If that is the average age it means that there are a lot of cars on the road that are a lot older. This is very true in the poorer areas in and just outside the new ULEZ extension. These are areas where there isn't an efficient public transport network. Supermarket car parks are full of older cars.
There should be an option for people with any car, that they are confident has low emissions, to apply to be registered for a very reasonably priced annual 'passport'. They would submit emissions testing results from their MOT, pay a small fee, and their car reg recorded as exempt on the ULEZ system. Any good car mechanic knows that some older vehicles, including some diesels, perform very well on emissions.

"I'm in the existing ULEZ, not the new one, and have two DC. We have these big red things called buses. And trains that go underground!"

The ULEZ extension takes it out into areas that don't have the efficient public transport network that is in place in London. Even if that wasn't the case, it's not easy for a plumber to jump on a bus with his tools is it? There are tradesmen inside the extension or just outside and who work there, who can't see a way forward for their livelihoods.

No I don't want anymore concessions,
Increases in benefits and the 'add ons'. I want people to be paid a proper wage for working. I want there to be a very clear distinction between those that work and those that don't. I want those who genuinely can't work due to disability or being a carer to be properly supported.

People that are paid properly can support themselves and are empowered. People should not have to be relying on handouts for everything when they are working (based on full time working).

I want a proper transport system rather than just taxing people in the name of air quality and climate change. Where is all the ulez money going?

I know quite a lot of families who live in London and other cities with ULEZs without a car. If you chose your work, school/nursery and home locations based on what you can reach without a car then it's fine. Public transport isn't the drama people make it out to be (babywearing and quick-fold pushchairs that can be collapsed with one hand). There's a lot more use of cargo-carry type bicycles to get younger kids around. In one such family their eldest has just finished their first year of senior school and their daily commute has been a 15 minute cycle ride to an overground station followed by a 15 minute train ride (trains every 15 minutes) and a 10 minute walk, which has been totally fine to do solo. The children only go in a car about half a dozen times a year when staying with family for holidays.

Another family with younger children have a cargo bike kitted out to carry the kids. On days when both parents have to be at work, in the morning parent A will take the kids in that to school/nursery and leave that bike there and take a borisbike to work and then come home later directly by public transport, meanwhile parent B having gone to work earlier in the morning by public transport will return via nursery/school and pick up the cargo bike and kids. They are members of a car club and can use a (ULEZ compliant) car that is parked within a few minutes walk from home if needed, and get preferential rates on hire-cars for holidays.

I live in a non-london ULEZ and I have a compliant car which I only use a couple of times a week. It certainly makes life easier to have it but I could do without it. In principle I try to only use it when the journey couldn't be done by bike/on foot/public transport but about half the journeys I do are in reality things I could have managed without a car if I had been more organised/less scatterbrained but those traits are part of my ASD and aren't going to go away, so I just do my best. DC schools & nursery have always been either in walking distance or reachable by public transport, me & DP have jobs where we can either get there on public transport or by bike when we don't work from home.

There are certainly vast swathes of our city which are built for the culture of car worship. I would like a house that's a bit larger so am keeping my eyes open on rightmove to see what sort of thing I could aspire to. There are entire regions of the city outsulide the ULEZ that I just couldn't consider because the public transport options are inadequate. But the ULEZ is part of fixing that - the LA have got to start having an integrated policy that reduces car-reliance by making other options easier, and this is a cultural shift. If houses in locations that can't be managed without a car become less popular and drop in value because you know it's going to cost thousands more every year to live there, then the house building companies reassess the cost/benefit balance between building on greenfield sites at the edge of the city vs brownfield former-light-industry zones near the centre which may be more difficult to build on but have loads of public transport options.

You aren't prevented from owning a car, you just can't drive a badly polluting one without having to pay.

The ULEZ money is going into TfL which has a huge Covid-related hole in its finances. That's been widely publicised

No. We already have so many redistributive taxes. ULEZ is a simple "you use you pay" scheme. I do think it shouldn't apply to work vehicles.

Armpits don't kill children though do they.

So much crap on this thread. My dad has an eight year old diesel Ford Focus. It’s not huge or old but it doesn’t comply. He’s had a warning letter about as he sometimes travels into the extended ULEZ zone but he isn’t entitled to the scrappage scheme as he doesn’t live in London. His pension is £12000 per year and he doesn’t have any savings so he can’t afford to buy a new car. He’d happily drive a newer petrol car but he can’t afford one!

I didn't see children dropping dead left right and centre in central London before the ULEZ.

@Happyfluffball

That’s a really insensitive comment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56801794

Can he afford an older petrol car though? So many people try to imply that getting a ULEZ-compliant car means spending fifty grand on a brand new Tesla and is the preserve of the wealthy. But of course there are loads of solid but elderly petrol cars which are totally compliant.

The problem, to be fair, is that the second hand car market has gone though the roof world-wide, so there are far fewer of those boring decent quality third hand petrol cars around than there used to be. It's terrible timing.