To think there should be a ULEZ concessions scheme?

[declutteringAgain]

For those on very low incomes affected by this ?
Either a reduced rate or a certain number of ‘free’ trips per UC assessment period or similar?

Just be grateful you are not in Glasgow with our version of the ULEZ. There is no option to pay £12.50 to use the zone for the day. You are not allowed in at all if your car doesn't meet the standards. If you do drive in using a vehicle which is non-compliant, £60 fine. Do it again, £120 fine. A third time, £240 fine and so on.

Major hospitals are outwith the zone. But it covers the entire city centre, two universities, the two main train stations, the bus station etc etc.

Some cities and their populations might want it, others might not. If you want it (or don’t) in your city then vote accordingly in your local and mayoral elections. Or do you want every decision in the country to be made in Westminster?

We have an secondhand old petrol car which is compliant - the rules really aren't that strict. I'm glad it's affecting the huge old diesel cars that cause so much pollution.

I was so pissed off when idiotic Labour started encouraging fucking diesel cars due to lower CO2 back in the early 2000's - while completely ignoring all the other dangerous pollutants they produce. Fucking imbeciles.

Yes, I got my diesel car because government of the time advised people to switch to diesel.

Thanks, it's good that we can get background information like this, on here. I'm in Liverpool, there is good patient transport and local choices in hospitals/appointments. Our public transport isn't as good as London, but if you have to take a day off for an appointment, you can get there on public transport. We'd need a overhaul of our buses, though, if we were to get ULEZ.

First of all my ticket was a gift. I didn't pay for it. Second my car is actually exempt.

Even so, I looked at getting the train but as I couldn't stay overnight due to work early the next day I couldn't get the train - the last train was at 10.34pm. Once the gig ended and we got out the arena it was gone 11pm so not sure how I was supposed to get the train.

I'm on a low income but I'm a private courier so I need my car for work. No car = no job.

We live in the North West and travelled to Birmingham, I don't understand why people think I drove from Birmingham to London. I didn't go anywhere near London.

My parents (mother disabled, blue badge) were driving home from a holiday down south and booked a night in a Birmingham hotel to stop over for the gig. Their car is also exempt.

My brothers car not exempt. He travelled as a party of 4 and stayed overnight. Didn't get the train because 4 train tickets were £268 compared to the £45 cost of taking his car.

That's on him but I know I would have drove too in his situation. The trains are too costly.

When I went to London last year I got the train in as in that case it feasible.

Earlofshrewbury, it costs alot more than £45 to run a car, that's not a like for like comparison

Geniegeneology, people also cycle in Glasgow, so they won't be affected, not everyone drives

High value (newer) cars are less polluting though so are mostly exempt.
We drove through the extended ULEZ zone yesterday. 8 or 9 out of 10 cars would be exempt from the charge. Ours is.

The numbers are increasing, and I think we're heading for a time when it's in all large conurbations.

But it's something that's done by councils (not central government) so if you want your city to introduce one sooner than current plans (if they have a plan) then start lobbying. But if you live somewhere without harmful levels of pollutants, you might find the local authorities are disinclined to act.

I haven't seen anyone address the fact that the scheme disadvantages those with protected characteristics, the most vulnerable and those living in poverty.
It definitely feels as though the scheme has been designed by, and for, those who are fit and financially solvent.

And rather than admitting that the scheme disadvantages those with mobility issues, those who are part of the gig and shift economy, those who can't afford the fines or to upgrade their cars, those who live rurally or need commercial vehicles for work - they just refuse to address those issues. It's a telling insight.
Push the problems and the people to the outskirts, and pretend that only certain people matter. And what a surprise that those people are also the ones deemed most economically viable from an employment pov.

The scrappage scheme which incentivised buying a diesel (rolled out to prop up the car industry after the credit crunch) ended in 2009. So any cars bought when the govt was actively encouraging it are 14 years old.

The average age of a car on the road is about 8.5 years, so most of the incentivised purchases are no longer being driven. Obviously some still will be around, but most have already gone and it's a number that is dwindling anyhow

I don’t have a car. I’d call a taxi if there were an emergency (or call an ambulance if it was a really serious emergency). That is a really weird reason.

A 12.50 charge in an emergency is a very small percent of the £1000 possibly more a year it takes to run a non-compliant car.
Surely just keep it in a separate kitty for emergencies.

This is why people call it a cash grab of a tax for ulez, cos hey you can pay £12.50 and still make our air dirty. Its not much of a deterrent. It should have been like your system is, cos if you really cared about cleaner air you wouldn't allow any highly polluting vehicles in

Most petrol cars, even old ones are compliant, DD's car worth £500 is! We need to ditch the polluting diesels. I'd back a scrappage scheme over discounts with the exception of vehicles modified for accessibility reasons eg cabs for electric wheelchairs

By the way if you want to talk stupid lex schemes try Bristol where the signposted route from the m5 to the airport (which is outside the city) clips the chargeable done! All our vehicles are exempt so doesn't affect us, we are driving into the city as before (due to unreliable buses) but many holiday makers may be coming back to tickets including the car I was behind today - there's nothing on the motorway telling you to take the alternative route to the airport!

We will just replace our older diesel with a new diesel, it's probably time we bought a new car anyway. I have an EV but that's not really suitable for a lot of journeys and DH hates it. We don't live in London but do travel to the new Ulez zones a few times so it would be inconvenient to keep the old car

@AlexandriasWindmill you are right that the disadvantaged sections of society need more protection as these plans are rolled out, but wrong that those who rely on a non-compliant car are the most disadvantaged (as pp have already pointed out) and it's certainly not the case that the appropriate remedy is to allow those non-compliant cars to continue polluting. The existing support to grant £5,000 to enable disability-adapted minivans to be retrofitted to become compliant is great but is far too narrow in scope - it should be opened up for everyone who can show their travel needs can't be met without a private vehicle and who can't afford to upgrade without help - and either retrofit their vehicle if possible or help them swap to a compliant vehicle if not.

More of a problem is that there are far too many people who can simply afford the extra costs and won't attempt to make any changes. I'd like to see an exponentialising scheme where unless ones daily travel can be shown to be impossible without a private vehicle, then each zone day above the 100th in a year incurs a charge higher than the last. Sadly its unenforceable as those who need to be targeted would just use 3 different cars.

Though it's important to note that the behavioural impacts of the existence of an incentive (the message that 'diesels are so much better the government will pay you to get one') will have lingered long after the direct incentive ended.

Tbh I don't really have strong opinions on ULEZ but why does everyone always get into such fights about who is the MOST POOREST and the only people worth designing anything for are the ones literally on the bones of their arse?

The problem with ULEZ as far as I can tell is that it affects lower-middle-class white van man kind of people, who are making a living through productive work but don't have a huge capacity to absorb financial shocks.

Given that the absolute #1 problem facing the UK right now is low productivity and a declining economy - I can't stand solutions that don't have these kinds of people front and centre. The last thing we want is for plumbers, electricians, builders etc who can't afford a new van to chuck it in for early retirement instead.

If it were up to me I wouldn't give concessions based on UC or not, I'd give them based on if it was a work trip or not. And I'd put up with slightly smoggy air until Britain was back on its feet.

@AlexandriasWindmill here is the impact assessment. I’ve not read it, but you seem interested

https://ehq-production-europe.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/2e0438f24520ece474690bb99a94108e4a555b1e/original/1652882837/c7731c1b9dd3c304567a31d5b4816351_London-wide_ULEZ_Integrated_Impact_Assessment_%28ULEZ_Scheme_IIA%29_%282%29.pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIA4KKNQAKICO37GBEP%2F20230730%2Feu-west-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20230730T233955Z&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=b1408047df7c333c0dc32ba4f8d32348ac8dbcdd26b28b72ed17e2a2198bd9b1

The last thing we want is for plumbers, electricians, builders etc who can't afford a new van to chuck it in for early retirement instead

if they can afford early retirement, they can probably either afford the ULEZ charge or a new van.

Also, there is a scrappage scheme or a retro fit scheme for business for up to 3 vans/minivans, that is £5k

The Royal infirmary is in the zone, no? Also what I find pretty ridiculous about the glasgow scheme is that the M8 (huge motorway which runs right through the zone) is exempt. It’s just daft