DS using grandmothers card

[TinyHorns]

DS visits his grandmother (his dad's mum) every day but Saturday. He will visit after work make sure she is ok help he with whatever she needs and on Sunday helps with garden bits etc. he's a good lad to her. He is 23. His grandmother does have the early start of dementia so I would consider her vulnerable even if she is independent and lives alone.

DS has recently used her card to purchase a new hoover, some bits from ikea and to pay for a repair on his car. I asked him if she had said he could use her cards and he just said "I always help her out" it was never a yes, which is obvious she hasn't. Spoke to his dad about it and he just says how it doesn't concern him and she wouldn't mind anyway as he does a lot for her.

I'm feeling really uneasy about this. His dad starts his pointless talk of how I should be prioritising my son and to stay out of being concerned for his mum but that's just him being bitter about our past relationship. AIBU to get involved?

He's there almost every day because he's taking advantage of her, stealing her money. You don't even know how much he withdraws. Have you checked? Perhaps you won't because you don't want to see the obvious truth. Disgusting thief, taking from an elderly woman. It's abhorrent. I wouldn't even be able to look at him

I'd report it to the police unless he repaid all the amounts he has taken from her. It's theft.

He should be paid for the same reason parents claim it for caring for their children. Do you think should not get it either? If she can't care for herself she will be entitled to claim PIP and if it is dgs who.is her carer and goes to care for her almost every day he would be entitled to the CA if he doesn't earn much each week. Not sure how old the DGS is?

Did he buy the things to use in her house ? And fixing the car so he can do errands for her ?

Do you think parents should not claim it for caring for disabled children either? Popping in to visit a Granny is far different than going everyday to make sure they have eaten a meal or preparing food for them or hundreds of other jobs he probably does for her whilst there.

Yes that might put a different slant on it. Does he use the vaccine at her house to clean for her? Maybe use the car to drive to see her and care for her?

society is completely broken when people start talking about being entitled to benefits for visiting their granny and doing some odd jobs.

Most people wouldn't "want" paying for looking after their relatives but there are circumstances when it may it needed for example if the relative was dependent on the assistance they were receiving and if it prevented the person from earning.

I don't agree with what the OPs son is doing though.

Apart from anything else it's an odd sort of life for a 23 year old especially when grandma has at least one child who should be stepping up. As a PP has suggested, dad is probably happy to be relieved of a responsibility; his guilt assuaged by knowing his son is getting some payment for his trouble.
The problem is that this situation could be nicely suiting all three parties involved. If I was the OP I'd get another adult relative or trusted friend of grandma's to have a quiet chat with her about the use of her credit card. There could be a scam going on or it could just be a mutually beneficial support system.

It's not 2 lots of benefit. Attendance Allowance is granted to pensioners who need help; it's the older person's version of PIP, paid at the same rates. If the claimant needs help from a person, that person can claim Carer's Allowance and the Attendance Allowance stops - basically, it pays the carer's benefit.

However, Carers Allowance requires 35 hours of assistance per week. It works out at a few pence over £2 an hour. It is not paid if the carer has income equivalent to a full-time minimum wage or thereabouts.

The idea of OP's son claiming Carer's Allowance is dead in the water.

@TinyHorns, here's the CPS guidance on elder abuse:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/publication/policy-guidance-prosecution-crimes-against-older-people-0

Here's the Citizen's Advice page on bank fraud:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/banking/banking-security-and-fraud/

What you've described is small fry compared to serious financial abuse but, really, I think it's a good idea to scare DS because it's not okay to just help himself to his grandmother's mother. If he skips along thinking it is okay, he's quite likely to escalate.

In your shoes I'd start by phoning the bank.

his grandmother's money, obvs!

I agree this is not a man who is above a bit of benefit fraud:

he is already stealing from his granny after all!

I honestly doubt this guy is doing 35 hrs a week by calling in after work and doing some gardening on a Sunday. It seems highly unlikely he meets the criteria. So many people in receipt are doing way more than 35 hours a wee k - it’s their life.

carers allowance is there for genuine reasons and is a lifeline for so many people. It’s awful that people propose it being abused by this type of person in this type of situation .

OP, do you know for certain that he is actually doing all these jobs for her? Have you been there with him at all ? Or is he just going there to financially abuse her?

Sounds like elder abuse, poor lady,

It’s theft to use someone else’s bank account without having POA I think so this is appalling behaviour by your DS and his DF.

At the very least I’d tell DS that this is absolutely unacceptable and theft, irrespective of whether his DF has given him the green light to use her card, and he could find himself seriously on the wrong side of the law. I would also contact Citizens Advice and see what the best approach would be for who to notify your concerns to.

I might be being cynical but it’s a bit unusual for a 23yo man to spend so much time at a DGM house every day, and given he’s apparently helping himself to her bank cards I’d be concerned about an ulterior motive rather than purely altruistic concern for her in her old age.

Even having POA, ExH can't just give her money away to whoever he wants.

This. There was a woman with POA posting recently who has got herself in a terrible muddle for spending her father’s money using the POA for things that mainly benefited her but sort of benefited her father (I’m pretty sure some of her money went towards her car).

Other people with POA said there needed to be a book or spreadsheet where every penny taken from the person’s account needed to be written down with details of how it benefited the person who granted the POA so if it was later challenged it could be shown the rules had been followed.

@CrabbiesGingerBeer Absolutely this. I held POA for both of my grandparents. And kept details and receipts for everything. It was never questioned but was all there should it have been.
@caringcarer I also spent 8 years going 5 days a week after work (for around 1.5-2h per day) and 5-6 hours over both days at the weekend in total. Prepping meals, cleaning, errands and personal care. That was just me being a granddaughter, not being a carer.
Parents with disabled children are completely different.

Stop the card .you are as bad knowing he is committing an offence and doing nothing.

How?! There is no legal way for an ex-DIL to ‘stop the card’ as you suggest.

After all, would you want a random member of an ex’s family to be able to cut off your access to funds with no question? It sounds like a recipe for abuse.

There's no comparison, so I don't know why you've bothered to try and make one.

Very kindly, OP, you might want to consider what legal arrangements you can make, if any, to protect your own financial assets and well-being when you grow older or get ill if DS is your next of kin.

Please don’t let them convince you this is okay

My sister did simikar to my Granny, it didn’t sit right with me but I am in another country so involved family who were closer, who dismissed me and ignored it

When my Gran passed earlier this year tbe extent of the fraud was discovered and is horrific
Please report it to someone

Does she have other children besides your ex?

There could be severe implications for your DS if other people become aware of what he is doing. I agree that you don’t have the full story and he has probably taken more than you are aware of.

Id also be concerned that he is basically choosing to become a criminal. If he can do this to his gran, what about his place of work? And his other family members?

If she requires more help in the future from the local authority, it might all come out

Id talk to him about it from this point of view. Remind him how important a persons reputation is and how hard it would be to recover from a conviction for fraud. I would also let him know how disappointed I was in him.

This is not good OP.

My carer has a credit card that is on my account so if I need anything buying I can tell him to use the card.

Sorry I should have said that was because a couple of times he used my card to pay (with my permission) but I wanted things to be clear.