DS using grandmothers card

[TinyHorns]

DS visits his grandmother (his dad's mum) every day but Saturday. He will visit after work make sure she is ok help he with whatever she needs and on Sunday helps with garden bits etc. he's a good lad to her. He is 23. His grandmother does have the early start of dementia so I would consider her vulnerable even if she is independent and lives alone.

DS has recently used her card to purchase a new hoover, some bits from ikea and to pay for a repair on his car. I asked him if she had said he could use her cards and he just said "I always help her out" it was never a yes, which is obvious she hasn't. Spoke to his dad about it and he just says how it doesn't concern him and she wouldn't mind anyway as he does a lot for her.

I'm feeling really uneasy about this. His dad starts his pointless talk of how I should be prioritising my son and to stay out of being concerned for his mum but that's just him being bitter about our past relationship. AIBU to get involved?

Not sure how the bank will do anything about it unless it’s actually reported by someone - would their systems be robust enough to pick up on £25 here, £75 there?

No one will report him though, because only you and his dad know. So, unless you can appeal to his conscience, he’ll continue.

He may have asked her and she’s felt obliged to say yes because he’s assisted her so much.

I believe the banks are very clear that you can’t give your card to someone else to use.

I would sit DS down and explain that it is fraud, it doesn’t matter if she said yes, he can’t use her card. Only she can. He doesn’t have POA so he can’t spend her money. Explain that an outsider would view this as financial abuse of a vulnerable elderly person. That he needs to protect himself, because if a shop flags it up, and the bank get involved, the police will probably be involved shortly afterwards. He might not realise he’s taking risks, if he’s accused of stealing, how likely is it that grandma will be able to clearly say she gave him permission?

phrase it like that and your exH can’t accuse you of not putting DS first.

is it your exHs mother?

getting him to apply for carers allowance is a good call

Why? Why does he need to be paid for helping his grandmother out?

Ex H has always been in charge of all her bank accounts and money since his father died. Is this not allowed? I have no idea what the situation is with that but I do know that's what she wanted at the time of that situation. His dad left a lot of money.

Ex H wouldn't ever admit he agrees with me, even if he did, not that I think he would with something that actually involves morals anyway. He is constantly complaining about what I do or don't do with regards to our son, i just ignore it these days.

It's only allowed if he has power of attorney

Not ok. He is stealing from her.

So they are both stealing from her

Absolutely fucking not ok and I would be hitting the roof.

It's theft!!

@HarrietJet Why? Why does he need to be paid for helping his grandmother out?

Because he's caring for her? 6 days a week at 23 years old is a lot, if the state agrees that he's a carer then he is. No one else is doing these things for her? It doesn't mean he steals from his own grandmother, though.

That's awful. Is he helping her to basically be stealing?

What a shitty thing to do.

Poor woman will now be stuck with either of them as her POA, is there any other family who can look after her interests?

If he doesn't have power of attorney then he is taking advantage of her and it is theft.

This poor woman, thank god you are around to notice this and do something about it!

So they're both stealing from her. Lovely.

I'd be having stern words and then phoning the bank to be honest. Dependent on his reaction; the police.

Well, he visits after work to make sure she's ok. Which is nice, but it's hardly a full time caring responsibility. And it's actually less nice when it appears he's only doing it because there's money in it for him.

@TinyHorns This actually makes me feel a bit sick to read. An elderly lady being stolen from by her own family is vile.

I helped my grandparents every day for 8 years. When my GM was ill my GF asked me to take over POA for them both as he was elderly and struggling to sign forms etc. I had full access to all their accounts and used them to order in their meals/groceries, pay for any household repairs they needed & general clothing/personal care expenses etc. I kept a record of literally every single penny spent along with invoices and receipts.
Never in a million years would I have spent a penny on myself.

I feel like OP has her best interests at heart 100 times more than her awful son and grandson. OP do you have a good relationship with her? I know my ex mil would look to me to handle her affairs if exh or my ex sil were unable to.

My Uncle was doing this to my Gran who also has dementia, it was during covid so took my mum and aunt a little longer to notice as he was her main carer. Long story short - My aunt and mum have POA and went with my Gran to the bank to get some statements and saw he was transferring gradually larger amounts of money to himself, the bank manager contacted the police himself as he said it was policy. Not sure if that goes for all banks. I suppose there would be no way if you can see if he is transferring any money to himself rather than only using her card? However if your husband doesn’t want to do anything there’s not much you can do sadly.

@HarrietJet good point, I guess it depends if he's shopping, cleaning, doing laundry etc or just popping in to say hello.

He wouldn't get Carers Allowance - you have to be caring for 35+ hours a week, and if he works full time then he'd earn too much to claim it.

Agree

If she lacks capacity she cannot consent so he is abusing trust and stealing. Does anyone have poa?

He is a thief. Shame on him.

Disgusting. I’d be ashamed of him. Despicable thief taking advantage of a vulnerable old woman. Grim.

He does help her with whatever she needs yes, that can be doing her washing, getting her food shop in (does home deliveries) and sits with her to order, makes her dinner. He is often there for a good few hours after work, he lives a short walk from her, so it was always handy. The time he is there does seem to be getting longer the more help she needs, it used to be a pop in for a cup of tea and help with the TV style thing.

I'm sadly not very close to her at all, I've actually not seen her since me and my ex divorced. It's been a complicated situation unfortunately.

There's no power of attorney with my son and I don't believe so with my ex but in all fairness I suppose I wouldn't really know but feel it probably would have got back to me at this point. I don't know if he uses her money , I just know she always wanted him to have access so he could ensure everything was being paid correctly and managed properly

I am really upset and unsure what to do, I feel if I start going to the police like some suggestions that's an instant ruin of my relationship with my son. I'm not saying I want to just ignore the situation because of that, I do definitely want to try and resolve it but just not sure how, it's very overwhelming