20 year old lazy, dirty son

[PissedOff2020]

Really at my wits end. Sorry this is a lengthily one.

We have 4 boys, eldest is 20 & dropped out of Uni after the first term - well over 18 months ago now. He didn’t tell us of course, had 5 weeks off over xmas and made no attempt to look for work. When we eventually found out and asked why the hell he hadn’t been looking for work he said he ‘wanted to chill and have the xmas break’. He was 19 then.

Mu husband eventually found him a job 2 months later, as ds’s effort was non existent. Zero hours contract and all good at first. His room was a dirty,dirty hovel with a smell coming out (think plates, food, rubbish etc all over floor). Carpet ruined, walls filthy.. clothes all over floor - can’t even open door there is that much shit. Anyway, that’s been a constant cause of arguments in house - just clean it ffs! He’s just got worse with that, we are quite house proud and I resent the smell upstairs- it’s a joke. He never contributes to household chores, despite countless conversations about it. Just does the bare minimum to get by.
Faat forward to now, his zero hours is currently working out at 8 hours a week. Been like that for 3 months and he’s not bothered to look for a job. We’ve told him he needs full time job, job hunted for him, sent him linked to apply - he does nothing. He sleeps all the time and games all night, sat in his filth.
Took him abroad last month, in the hope to speak to him away from the augments at home and also let him see life outside his bedroom. He slept all day, total waste of money. When I spoke to him about it he couldn’t see any issue with staying in his hotel room all day.
Over the last 2 months he’s got even worse, doesn’t even speak to us. Literally walks in a room and ignores us - we say hello, he has headphones on and so can’t hear anything, but makes no effort to acknowledge us etc. He eats meals if we cook, otherwise lives off sandwiches and cereal.
I have had enough, it’s intolerable. Constant tension and frustration in the house over it. Spoke to him and said I felt like he was treating us like doormats and he has no gratitude for what he has and enough was enough. Told him, the atmosphere in the house with him ignoring us was awful, just made us feel like he doesn’t give a shit about us. Asked why he wasn’t applying for jobs, he shrugged his shoulders. Told him we are not working our arses off, both working full time, for him to work a day a week and sleep all day. Then do not a thing around the house and blank us in the process.
Eventually it finished in a huge row after he snarled he’d apply for jobs but we shouldn’t speak to him at all anymore. Genuinely like he was angry we expected him to work. To add, even before his hours were really slashed he’s only ever worked around 25-30 hours per week at best. He’s had it so easily but he hasn’t a single bit of appreciation. We’ve spoken to him a year ago when he said he was unhappy at work - suggested all sorts, he was going to look into things but he never did.
I just don’t know what to try next. Explained to him over and over before yesterday this is his chance to build his career, we are supporting him whilst he does that. He’s not though, he is quite happy to do nothing and wait until it’s at breaking point - which is where I am at.
Anyone been here? Any advice from any others?

Well exactly, presumably people have always had mental health issues, ADHD etc and yet I know only one person over the age of 50 who cam even be remotely described like this but it is seemingly endemic in younger men. As someone else pointed out, only a few decades ago, they would have been raising families, fighting in wars or in the case of huge numbers of young men where I am from in the West of Ireland, heading on the emigrant boat to England at 16 or 17 with a cardboard suitcase. I know that society has changed enormously and maybe that level of hardship and tough love is too far in one direction but surely there is a middle ground. Perhaps many young men are like this because they are 'let' be like this and aren't forced to make the kind of changes needed to function, to contribute or at the very least, behave with some kind of civility towards others. If this young man wasn't working but was at least pleasant enough to be around or helped out with younger siblings, around the house etc it would be something. I have a 16 year old who I consider to be poor enough in terms of work ethic, cleanliness etc but he's Perfect Peter compared to this. And if at a certain point he regressed to what's described here, well I would put the rest of the families well being and my own mental health first and ask him to leave.

He may be depressed and he may not know where to start. But ffs he needs to try and turn his life around. He can't carry on like this.
What kind of father or parent will he be if he's being taught that this behaviour is acceptable?
OP- I would give him the benefit of the doubt and first offer support with a. Helping him muck out his room b.support finding a course or job he's interested in and c.accompanying him to the gp or looking into counselling if he is depressed or addicted. But be firm that things need to change and current situation is not acceptable. If he doesn't do the above he's out.
If he refuses - off he goes. Turn off wifi, stop buying food, change the locks.

How the bloody hell would you know??? A lot of the OP’s post resonates with me and I have severe depression and ADHD, which in some ways was worse at her son’s sort of age.

I get easily overwhelmed and shut down and cannot function a lot of the time. It’s no wonder we feel suicidal with attitudes like yours. Educate yourself and don’t be so damn ignorant. From what the OP says this is not normal laziness, this is almost certainly neurodivergence and or MH.

Why is this 20 year old adult man being babied by so many posters? He is an ADULT. Who is clearly capable of working and making his own way in life but is choosing to pay lip service to the idea of work, whilst gaming his life away in a dirty, smelly bedroom.

He needs to be forcibly nudged from the nest. To say he might be suffering from MH after lockdown well aren't we all! But malingering isn't going to help his situation. Neuro-divergent? It's the new neuro-normal, many highly highly successful and influential ND people flourish and strive for better everyday. It's not an excuse. Depressed? Being in a dirty room up all hours gaming and only having the routine of 8 hours a week to fall back on will do that to you.

It's time for this overgrown baby to FLEDGE.

Children's brains don't completely develop until they're 25.
I'd give him another chance. Make it clear you want a clean start and you'll help, but he has to help himself too. Maybe put it in a letter and slide it under the door, if he's a bit avoidant.

Start with some direction - what does he want to do with his life? There's some good advice here
https://www.princes-trust.org.uk/how-we-can-help/who-else/employment/careers-advice

make it clear if he wants to stay there is no internet after 12pm and he needs to do a form of exercise every other day (it will improve his mood).
If he wants to stay in the house he also needs to contribute to family life, cooking a meal a week and also cleaning his own space and also himself.

It's very easy to get into a rut.

It is an excuse in this case.

ADHD is not a valid reason to leech off the good will of people who love you, ever.

AND AND, God Forbids HE was a step child?!?

If you are from the West of Ireland then surely you know of more than a few men who took over the family 'farm' and farm is in quotation marks because we are talking about a couple of cows or sheep. They never left the family home, inherited it when the parents died. Or what about the amount of men that left Mammy and Daddys and moved in with a woman, became a drunken abusive alcoholic barely functioning in society? There have always been men and women that have struggled. It is totally insincere to pretend otherwise.

He sounds depressed

Again, how do you know it’s an excuse? Yes, he needs to find strategies to help him cope with life, get therapy etc. This clearly isn’t just him being lazy. I’m not suggesting OP should just leave him to it, but she needs to talk to him and come up with acheiveable goals together, not just kick him out and assume he’s lazy and entitled. Some of these posts are awful to read for someone who has suffered similarly and still does in some respects. What’s the point, we’re all lazy gits with nothing to offer, eh?

Oh the children's brain thing rears it's head. Even if 100% true (and I'm sceptical considering the lifespan of humans as a species prior to modern medicine etc, it would make us almost uniquely useless amongst animals), it does NOT mean that people get to have all the privileges of childhood, should be treated with kid gloves etc up until 25 when something magical happens. The process of becoming an adult starts in childhood and builds gradually over time, sometimes imperfectly, sometimes in stops and starts and in some cases, with greater levels of difficulty. This young man is clearly VERY stuck and the passage of time alone seems unlikely to bring about change that will enable him to flourish and grow for his own sake and that of his family.

You sound highly unpleasant and ignorant, I really hope that if you have kids none of them have any kind of mental health struggles or ND issues as its clear you'd be about as supportive as a brick to the back of the head

The absolute opposite. You are not presumably not a lazy git with nothing to offer and you shouldn't undersell yourself that way. And this lad whether he is a lazy git or has some kind neuro situation going on shouldn't sell himself short either (not that he sounds like he is doing, he appears to think his parents are his staff) , he should be grateful of the gifts that luck has bestowed on him being born to parents who cushion him against reality of adult life and act accordingly. And he should use that profoundly lucky position to springboard into his future life instead of languishing like a grubby 12 year old with the job equivalent of a paper round.

Of course they struggled, no one is denying that. Christ, mental ill health was practically endemic an hard times made for hard lives. But this particular phenomenon is seemingly growing and amongst young men who have had every advantage of education, opportunity, loving home etc that the men you are describing would have probably had little of. THAT is what is concerning. And the vast majority of even the most coddling of Irish mammies of yore would not have put up with the sheer breadth of issues described here. A son might have been a bit rough and ready but they were a hard worker, or they might have been workshy but appreciative.

It’s not an about thinking your parents are your staff, that is the whole point. Someone with ADHD, their mind is chaotic, they get over stimulated and overwhelmed. This is why we are messy and disorderly. Add In the depression and feeling like you can’t cope, you’re useless as an adult because you can’t even keep a room tidy, you can’t muster the energy to function, you don’t know where to start, can’t face it. Then you start to understand. It’s a horrible combination.

Feeling grateful doesn’t even come into it, yes of course people are grateful for things but when you’re depressed, you don’t see things that way. You don’t enjoy things, it blinds you to the good in your life. You sound like you have very limited understanding to honest.

It is horrible. But it is also really horrible for the other 5 people in the house to bear the brunt of it. They matter too. A number of posts on this thread have given the siblings perspective and clearly their lives have been blighted by a failure to tackle these issues at a time when it might have made a difference. Understanding is wonderful and a start but it has to be a prelude to action.

Yes, and that is what I said, the OP needs to try and help her son, not just kick the ‘’lazy, entitled, man baby’’ out as according to this shitty replies that have absolutely no idea what they’re on about. This isn’t normal laziness. It’s blatantly obvious.

With respect, I don't need ADHD mansplained (or in the style thereof) to me.

We all know what it is. It is not an excuse for what OP has described. Her son is vastly capable of meeting his appointment for gaming every night and organising himself for that, he needs to apply that same dedication to his responsibilities. Neuro-divergent are some of, if not all, the most successful people on this earth, it's really that simple.

You yourself are not hamstrung by your condition are you, the things you care about and that stimulate you will get done, your phone will be looked at, the mumsnet threads will be diligently replied to...

with the job equivalent of a paper round

I was just thinking that my paper round before/after school at age 13 (in the dark no less) was more than the 8 hours that is apparently all OP's son can manage!

I have zero respect and zero tolerance for his level of shitebaggery.

yawn

You could be my parents. My brother was exactly the same, didn’t want to go to Uni or get a job, never showered or cleaned up or contributed to the household. My parents put up with it a lot longer than they should have and he got entitled to the sleep all day, game all night lifestyle while they footed bills.

Act sooner rather than later and insist he moves out and supports himself if he’s not in school. My parents weren’t tough enough and my brother leeched off them until he was 26, and still unemployed and destroyed his room with his filth.

Ok, whatever. He’s a lazy fucker then, kick him out OP.

Quite.

No one said he was definitely depressed its one option of many and could (usually is) a mix of several.

Its good your daughter is doing so well, many of us struggle a hell of a lot more and can't just magically fix it by 'trying harder'.

Your 1 person experience of someone coping OK is not what everyone with neurological and mental issues should be held against.