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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

20 year old lazy, dirty son

532 replies

PissedOff2020 · 27/07/2023 14:10

Really at my wits end. Sorry this is a lengthily one.

We have 4 boys, eldest is 20 & dropped out of Uni after the first term - well over 18 months ago now. He didn’t tell us of course, had 5 weeks off over xmas and made no attempt to look for work. When we eventually found out and asked why the hell he hadn’t been looking for work he said he ‘wanted to chill and have the xmas break’. He was 19 then.

Mu husband eventually found him a job 2 months later, as ds’s effort was non existent. Zero hours contract and all good at first. His room was a dirty,dirty hovel with a smell coming out (think plates, food, rubbish etc all over floor). Carpet ruined, walls filthy.. clothes all over floor - can’t even open door there is that much shit. Anyway, that’s been a constant cause of arguments in house - just clean it ffs! He’s just got worse with that, we are quite house proud and I resent the smell upstairs- it’s a joke. He never contributes to household chores, despite countless conversations about it. Just does the bare minimum to get by.
Faat forward to now, his zero hours is currently working out at 8 hours a week. Been like that for 3 months and he’s not bothered to look for a job. We’ve told him he needs full time job, job hunted for him, sent him linked to apply - he does nothing. He sleeps all the time and games all night, sat in his filth.
Took him abroad last month, in the hope to speak to him away from the augments at home and also let him see life outside his bedroom. He slept all day, total waste of money. When I spoke to him about it he couldn’t see any issue with staying in his hotel room all day.
Over the last 2 months he’s got even worse, doesn’t even speak to us. Literally walks in a room and ignores us - we say hello, he has headphones on and so can’t hear anything, but makes no effort to acknowledge us etc. He eats meals if we cook, otherwise lives off sandwiches and cereal.
I have had enough, it’s intolerable. Constant tension and frustration in the house over it. Spoke to him and said I felt like he was treating us like doormats and he has no gratitude for what he has and enough was enough. Told him, the atmosphere in the house with him ignoring us was awful, just made us feel like he doesn’t give a shit about us. Asked why he wasn’t applying for jobs, he shrugged his shoulders. Told him we are not working our arses off, both working full time, for him to work a day a week and sleep all day. Then do not a thing around the house and blank us in the process.
Eventually it finished in a huge row after he snarled he’d apply for jobs but we shouldn’t speak to him at all anymore. Genuinely like he was angry we expected him to work. To add, even before his hours were really slashed he’s only ever worked around 25-30 hours per week at best. He’s had it so easily but he hasn’t a single bit of appreciation. We’ve spoken to him a year ago when he said he was unhappy at work - suggested all sorts, he was going to look into things but he never did.
I just don’t know what to try next. Explained to him over and over before yesterday this is his chance to build his career, we are supporting him whilst he does that. He’s not though, he is quite happy to do nothing and wait until it’s at breaking point - which is where I am at.
Anyone been here? Any advice from any others?

OP posts:
sewerrat · 27/07/2023 20:27

Hearmeout · 27/07/2023 20:22

With respect, I don't need ADHD mansplained (or in the style thereof) to me.

We all know what it is. It is not an excuse for what OP has described. Her son is vastly capable of meeting his appointment for gaming every night and organising himself for that, he needs to apply that same dedication to his responsibilities. Neuro-divergent are some of, if not all, the most successful people on this earth, it's really that simple.

You yourself are not hamstrung by your condition are you, the things you care about and that stimulate you will get done, your phone will be looked at, the mumsnet threads will be diligently replied to...

couldn't have replied better myself

JudgeRinderonTinder · 27/07/2023 20:28

Hearmeout · 27/07/2023 20:22

With respect, I don't need ADHD mansplained (or in the style thereof) to me.

We all know what it is. It is not an excuse for what OP has described. Her son is vastly capable of meeting his appointment for gaming every night and organising himself for that, he needs to apply that same dedication to his responsibilities. Neuro-divergent are some of, if not all, the most successful people on this earth, it's really that simple.

You yourself are not hamstrung by your condition are you, the things you care about and that stimulate you will get done, your phone will be looked at, the mumsnet threads will be diligently replied to...

Have you never considered that being online or gaming is used as a distraction from reality? People who are depressed or ND tend to procrastinate a lot. It takes them away from their overwhelm, but ok I don’t know what I’m talking about it’s ok. I won’t bother.

Hearmeout · 27/07/2023 20:31

JudgeRinderonTinder · 27/07/2023 20:28

Have you never considered that being online or gaming is used as a distraction from reality? People who are depressed or ND tend to procrastinate a lot. It takes them away from their overwhelm, but ok I don’t know what I’m talking about it’s ok. I won’t bother.

We're not playing the pity me martyr game here.

You and I have had a debate, we have opposing views as adults do, our interaction is complete.

theleafandnotthetree · 27/07/2023 20:32

JusthereforXmas · 27/07/2023 20:27

No one said he was definitely depressed its one option of many and could (usually is) a mix of several.

Its good your daughter is doing so well, many of us struggle a hell of a lot more and can't just magically fix it by 'trying harder'.

Your 1 person experience of someone coping OK is not what everyone with neurological and mental issues should be held against.

But a genuine question, what is the end game here in these kind of scenarios? Does the rest of the families well being get thrown under a bus if someone is struggling so much that they are incapable of ever getting better? I know I definitely couldn't and wouldn't do it. Does that make me a monster?

Hearmeout · 27/07/2023 20:33

sewerrat · 27/07/2023 20:27

couldn't have replied better myself

Right? It's time to contribute positively to the nest or FLEDGE.

JusthereforXmas · 27/07/2023 20:33

theleafandnotthetree · 27/07/2023 19:55

Well exactly, presumably people have always had mental health issues, ADHD etc and yet I know only one person over the age of 50 who cam even be remotely described like this but it is seemingly endemic in younger men. As someone else pointed out, only a few decades ago, they would have been raising families, fighting in wars or in the case of huge numbers of young men where I am from in the West of Ireland, heading on the emigrant boat to England at 16 or 17 with a cardboard suitcase. I know that society has changed enormously and maybe that level of hardship and tough love is too far in one direction but surely there is a middle ground. Perhaps many young men are like this because they are 'let' be like this and aren't forced to make the kind of changes needed to function, to contribute or at the very least, behave with some kind of civility towards others. If this young man wasn't working but was at least pleasant enough to be around or helped out with younger siblings, around the house etc it would be something. I have a 16 year old who I consider to be poor enough in terms of work ethic, cleanliness etc but he's Perfect Peter compared to this. And if at a certain point he regressed to what's described here, well I would put the rest of the families well being and my own mental health first and ask him to leave.

Really I know loads of people who never flew the coop (some in their 80s now).

Historically it was actually very common.

Things like games that make coping issues like escapism common is new but the other issues have ALWAYS existed.

PerspiringElizabeth · 27/07/2023 20:35

Kick him out. He should be having the time of his life! Sad all round!

Hearmeout · 27/07/2023 20:35

JusthereforXmas · 27/07/2023 20:33

Really I know loads of people who never flew the coop (some in their 80s now).

Historically it was actually very common.

Things like games that make coping issues like escapism common is new but the other issues have ALWAYS existed.

That's fair comment, but being abused in your own home (stonewalling) by a fellow adult is no way to live. We wouldn't put up with it from a partner so we shouldn't from anyone else.

JudgeRinderonTinder · 27/07/2023 20:37

Hearmeout · 27/07/2023 20:31

We're not playing the pity me martyr game here.

You and I have had a debate, we have opposing views as adults do, our interaction is complete.

I’m the one with direct experience as it affects me, and I also have MH qualifications. I struggle with daily life and am sometimes like OP’s son. In the depths of my depression I couldn’t even get out of bed.

All reading this thread has achieved is now I feel like crap and a lazy, useless piece of shit who should just function like a normal adult, it’s really that simple. People deal with things differently, life isn’t ‘’that simple’’

Delphinium20 · 27/07/2023 20:42

@JusthereforXmas Mental health therapies for depression are goal-oriented and a good therapist challenges patients who have depression to work small steps toward larger goals of living and functioning in the world (whether w/ or w/out meds). But a patient needs to be willing and acknowledge they need help. I don't think OP's son wants help nor does he acknowledge he needs to change...that's where I see this as more of a failure to launch, but a therapist can determine that, of course. Not doing things IS a symptom of depression, but to accept this as unchangeable is not part of any therapy that I'm aware of. Otherwise, why seek help? It doesn't matter if its ND or depression or anxiety or none of it...the fact remains that his behavior is unacceptable for his family and OP shouldn't have to put up w/ it if he's not willing to at least get help, of any kind.

DaisyThistle · 27/07/2023 20:44

pillsthrillsandbellyache · 27/07/2023 19:12

i should say, ADHD people have no idea how to 'tidy a room.' You have to break it down into small, doable stages, one by one.

Did i miss where the OP said he had ADHD?

Oh for heaven's sake.Is no one allowed to suggest ways to help a young man unless he has a diagnosis that takes 2 years and £800 to obtain. He may or may not have it. I wasn't diagnosing him. I was suggesting that if he has it, a step by step approach is more effective.
Some of us are trying to help and some are being snide and some are relishing the prospect of making a barely functioning young man homeless. Take your pick!

Stomacharmeleon · 27/07/2023 20:47

@JudgeRinderonTinder op's son has yet to be diagnosed with anything... except on here.
Not even discussed in opening post...
I don't know why it's such a stretch to think he may just be a disengaged, lazy teen.
You might be an expert in MH but are you an expert in lazy teenagers?

pillsthrillsandbellyache · 27/07/2023 20:50

I will stick to the not enabling or making excuses for a 20 year old man who is treating his family terribly @DaisyThistle . I cannot abide posters making up any diagnosis they can think of to encourage an OP to tolerate taking shit in her own home. There is too much of that on here.

JudgeRinderonTinder · 27/07/2023 20:51

Stomacharmeleon · 27/07/2023 20:47

@JudgeRinderonTinder op's son has yet to be diagnosed with anything... except on here.
Not even discussed in opening post...
I don't know why it's such a stretch to think he may just be a disengaged, lazy teen.
You might be an expert in MH but are you an expert in lazy teenagers?

Because it’s not a normal level of teen laziness, that’s why. To me, alarm bells are ringing that he’s either ND or depressed or both, quite possibly. And the way PP’s here are being so cold and ignorant is making me feel like absolute shit as a human being because I can relate a lot.

I’m going to stop reading now. She needs to speak with him and come up with an action plan. If he does indeed have issues then tough love won’t be effective and will likely make him worse.

Hearmeout · 27/07/2023 20:53

JudgeRinderonTinder · 27/07/2023 20:37

I’m the one with direct experience as it affects me, and I also have MH qualifications. I struggle with daily life and am sometimes like OP’s son. In the depths of my depression I couldn’t even get out of bed.

All reading this thread has achieved is now I feel like crap and a lazy, useless piece of shit who should just function like a normal adult, it’s really that simple. People deal with things differently, life isn’t ‘’that simple’’

You've studied and trained sufficiently to gain MH quals but can't cope with debate on the subject??

A discussion board is not meant to be an echo chamber.

You've somehow made a post about OP's son who may or may not have ADHD or may or may not be just be lazy and entitled into how you now feel bad, like it's my fault.

With all due respect, no.

JudgeRinderonTinder · 27/07/2023 20:53

Stomacharmeleon · 27/07/2023 20:47

@JudgeRinderonTinder op's son has yet to be diagnosed with anything... except on here.
Not even discussed in opening post...
I don't know why it's such a stretch to think he may just be a disengaged, lazy teen.
You might be an expert in MH but are you an expert in lazy teenagers?

I didn’t say I was an expert in MH. I was also a teen myself once and have younger siblings so yeah I have a good idea how teens are.

pillsthrillsandbellyache · 27/07/2023 20:55

Stomacharmeleon · 27/07/2023 20:47

@JudgeRinderonTinder op's son has yet to be diagnosed with anything... except on here.
Not even discussed in opening post...
I don't know why it's such a stretch to think he may just be a disengaged, lazy teen.
You might be an expert in MH but are you an expert in lazy teenagers?

They aren't an expert on mental health for a start, notice they just say they have MH qualifications? The excuses made for men on this website never ceases to amaze me. God forbid anyone just be straight to the point with them and tell them to sort their shit out.

JudgeRinderonTinder · 27/07/2023 20:56

Hearmeout · 27/07/2023 20:53

You've studied and trained sufficiently to gain MH quals but can't cope with debate on the subject??

A discussion board is not meant to be an echo chamber.

You've somehow made a post about OP's son who may or may not have ADHD or may or may not be just be lazy and entitled into how you now feel bad, like it's my fault.

With all due respect, no.

No, this is not what I intended. I made the post because I was trying to get people to understand that OP’s son likely isn’t just a lazy, entitled brat because other people are out there that can relate to it. I’m trying to defend him. I didn’t mean to make it about me, I’m trying to be in His corner by relating it back. That’s all.

pillsthrillsandbellyache · 27/07/2023 20:58

I was trying to get people to understand that OP’s son likely isn’t just a lazy, entitled brat

He most very likely is. Jesus Christ, no wonder the chronically underfunded MH services are at breaking point.

Zippedydodah · 27/07/2023 20:59

Hearmeout · 27/07/2023 20:01

It is an excuse in this case.

ADHD is not a valid reason to leech off the good will of people who love you, ever.

Nor is being ND an excuse to be abusive, arrogant and aggressive towards your parents as far as I know.

JudgeRinderonTinder · 27/07/2023 21:00

pillsthrillsandbellyache · 27/07/2023 20:55

They aren't an expert on mental health for a start, notice they just say they have MH qualifications? The excuses made for men on this website never ceases to amaze me. God forbid anyone just be straight to the point with them and tell them to sort their shit out.

I’m a woman, for a start. I’m not making excuses for ‘’men’’ and the ‘’qualifications’’ was because people I know are on here so I was purposely vague. I’m having a bad day, ignore me if you want 😂. I did say I wasn’t an expert as well, I’m just quite well informed.

Backstreets · 27/07/2023 21:02

Deadline with real consequences at the end of them. Don’t enable this bollocks for years on end.

Dacadactyl · 27/07/2023 21:03

Fuck. That. Shit.

There'd be no internet acces for him and just bread and water to eat. Im not even joking. I would slowly starve him into a job.

Stomacharmeleon · 27/07/2023 21:04

@JudgeRinderonTinder nd and never picked up at school... never suggested... never mentioned.
Am with @Hearmeout sorry.
Agreed @pillsthrillsandbellyache.... as the mother of three sons. Two with autism. One with severe mental health problems.

JudgeRinderonTinder · 27/07/2023 21:04

Stomacharmeleon · 27/07/2023 21:04

@JudgeRinderonTinder nd and never picked up at school... never suggested... never mentioned.
Am with @Hearmeout sorry.
Agreed @pillsthrillsandbellyache.... as the mother of three sons. Two with autism. One with severe mental health problems.

It happens, don’t you know? I was 28 before I was diagnosed.

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