20 year old lazy, dirty son

[PissedOff2020]

Really at my wits end. Sorry this is a lengthily one.

We have 4 boys, eldest is 20 & dropped out of Uni after the first term - well over 18 months ago now. He didn’t tell us of course, had 5 weeks off over xmas and made no attempt to look for work. When we eventually found out and asked why the hell he hadn’t been looking for work he said he ‘wanted to chill and have the xmas break’. He was 19 then.

Mu husband eventually found him a job 2 months later, as ds’s effort was non existent. Zero hours contract and all good at first. His room was a dirty,dirty hovel with a smell coming out (think plates, food, rubbish etc all over floor). Carpet ruined, walls filthy.. clothes all over floor - can’t even open door there is that much shit. Anyway, that’s been a constant cause of arguments in house - just clean it ffs! He’s just got worse with that, we are quite house proud and I resent the smell upstairs- it’s a joke. He never contributes to household chores, despite countless conversations about it. Just does the bare minimum to get by.
Faat forward to now, his zero hours is currently working out at 8 hours a week. Been like that for 3 months and he’s not bothered to look for a job. We’ve told him he needs full time job, job hunted for him, sent him linked to apply - he does nothing. He sleeps all the time and games all night, sat in his filth.
Took him abroad last month, in the hope to speak to him away from the augments at home and also let him see life outside his bedroom. He slept all day, total waste of money. When I spoke to him about it he couldn’t see any issue with staying in his hotel room all day.
Over the last 2 months he’s got even worse, doesn’t even speak to us. Literally walks in a room and ignores us - we say hello, he has headphones on and so can’t hear anything, but makes no effort to acknowledge us etc. He eats meals if we cook, otherwise lives off sandwiches and cereal.
I have had enough, it’s intolerable. Constant tension and frustration in the house over it. Spoke to him and said I felt like he was treating us like doormats and he has no gratitude for what he has and enough was enough. Told him, the atmosphere in the house with him ignoring us was awful, just made us feel like he doesn’t give a shit about us. Asked why he wasn’t applying for jobs, he shrugged his shoulders. Told him we are not working our arses off, both working full time, for him to work a day a week and sleep all day. Then do not a thing around the house and blank us in the process.
Eventually it finished in a huge row after he snarled he’d apply for jobs but we shouldn’t speak to him at all anymore. Genuinely like he was angry we expected him to work. To add, even before his hours were really slashed he’s only ever worked around 25-30 hours per week at best. He’s had it so easily but he hasn’t a single bit of appreciation. We’ve spoken to him a year ago when he said he was unhappy at work - suggested all sorts, he was going to look into things but he never did.
I just don’t know what to try next. Explained to him over and over before yesterday this is his chance to build his career, we are supporting him whilst he does that. He’s not though, he is quite happy to do nothing and wait until it’s at breaking point - which is where I am at.
Anyone been here? Any advice from any others?

Well I bet he is glad you’re not his mum then. A lot of this stuff resonates with me as a teen. I was severely depressed and have ADHD. Kicking someone out does absolutely no good in these circumstances. It doesn’t ‘’teach them a lesson’’ what actually happens is they end up on a downward spiral, even turning to drugs.

No happy and contented person acts like the OP’s son, some people are naturally lazy I accept, but no one chooses to live like that to that extent

I have some ADHD traits (and 4 adult children). Sounds a bit like he's overwhelmed even if it seems he couldn't care less. Bin bags are for 8 year olds not 20 year olds though it never worked with dd2! Still have bags of her stuff in the loft. We can understand people's behaviour even though we don't accept it and shouldn't accept it. Your doctor should help. Don't let your relationship with your son break down completely - talking without starting each sentence with "you need to" would be a good start, maybe over a favourite meal while the younger three are elsewhere. Parenting young adults is hard x

Reading this post truly depresses me. No wonder there are so many dysfunctional and messed up people in the world. People are so quick to judge and jump to conclusions. Why can’t people learn to communicate effectively and compromise?

He may be depressed - he may not be. He may have ADD / ADHD- he may not. He may smoke weed - he may not. Any of these things can have contributing factors, the bottom line is you both need to understand the other person’s issues and figure out a way forward.

Have you calmly sat your son down and asked him why he doesn’t care about his surroundings or why he isn’t working? Have you talked about why these factors are causing distress for you? Is it possible he doesn’t know where to start with how to fix these things? Is he completely overwhelmed or simply lazy?

What matters is you both agree on a way forward.

He didn’t enjoy the Uni course, partly as it was lock down and all remote learning.

This was my initial thought on reading your OP. Uni was meant to be his chance to fly the nest and spread his wings and it was robbed from him.

Not saying it's 100% the cause of his issues but lockdown really did a number on so many young people.

He's an adult, time he lived in the real world.
Bag everything up including his rubbish and get the locks changed.
It's fine for adult children to live at home if everyone is happy with the arrangement but you no longer have a responsibility to house him.
If you are feeling generous give him 14 days notice of your intentions to allow him to turn things around: reasonable hours job, tidy room and pleasant attitude in order to remain.

PissedOff2020

Ih you poor thing, you have my sympathies, this was exactly me about 15 years ago in exactly the same situation although I was at this time a single parent, it got to the point where I couldn’t cope with the laziness, filth and total lack of respect and agressive attitude. To be fair my son was suffering with low esteem and mental health problems and was heavily in debt to the point I was worried about bailiffs coming to the house because of his debts but things came to a head (long story) and I gave him a months notice to move out. He wasn’t pleased but it was the kick up the a** he needed, fast forward 15 yrs to now, he’s well paid with a successful career in IT and we get on amazingly well. He can still be a bit lazy and isn’t the best at keeping his home clean but I m proud of how he s turned his life around. I can only say that sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, your son may be suffering mentally from feeling he’s failed by dropping out of uni, is he suffering mental health issues perhaps he’s depressed, the signs all point that way. As people have suggested he would be as well to see his GP and speak in confidence to them, wishing you all the best, stay strong xx

Does he have a partner or social life at all? Is his performance satisfactory during the hours he works? Does he take any care with his personal appearance? If the answer to these are no, then I'd be concerned and would be trying to start a non confrontational conversation about his mental health.
If the answers are all yes, then I'd be issuing an ultimatum.

It sounds like he's feeling depressed and low. You're feeling his behavior is about what he thinks about you and you are reacting to that. Instead react to him feeling low and be there for him so he doesn't feel alone or that he's failing you - creating a vicious cycle. It can be hard to get through sometimes and sounds like you have been trying hard to reach him.

I’d pay the deposit and the first month in a 6 month house share. Move all his shit in - just pay someone to shovel every single thing in his skanky room into bin liners and drop it round to his new place, then change the locks on your house and get decorators in to gut his room. Tell him he can come home in 6 months if he has a full time job, has paid his bills, and sorted out his living conditions because you’re not doing it for him anymore.

(see above)

Gentle love hasn’t worked, tough love hasn’t worked. It’s time to put your money where your mouth is and protect the rest of your family. He’s not a child and shouldn’t be treated like one. Invite him for dinner once a month and make him do the dishes. Hopefully that way he will learn some respect.

Tough love and a firm hand required. But this is now quite common, with covid and lockdown many of these age groups have missed out on a lot and seemingly regressed. Just needs guidance. I suspect the obnoxious behaviour could be a front for something else.

He sounds depressed. I’d try to encourage him to see a GP to have some physical checks first to make sure all’s ok, but then to explore his possible depression. If you feel he’d react badly to a talk, could you write this down in a sympathetic way (despite your justifiable upset at the mess and smell) and give him a letter. Offer support and options.

change the password and only give it to the others. If LazyBoy wants it, he will have to pay his way

He sounds depressed to me

University during lockdown was an horrendous experience and students got a really bad deal. My son was at uni then but not in the first year, and that was bad enough. Many first year students had poor mental health because they didn't get a chance to integrate and they had no friends. A lot of students work together on uni courses and this is encouraged, but they didn't have the chance to. Some left and never went back. If your son left during the first year he could reapply. He perhaps had a lot of expectation for the future and feels this has been ruined? Or if he doesn't want to do uni, look into some of the excellent apprenticeships? If he is academic, doing his current job probably is really depressing for him.

Can you cut off his internet access? Nothing will stop him from trying to get his own internet access, but if he has to pay for it then he will need to work to do that,

The gaming isn't helping, whether its the cause or a symptom of avoiding real life, as long as he can escape into it he has no motivation to do anything else.

These games are designed to be addictive, to keep you playing them

I used to play World of Warcraft and would see people like this all the time, who were never offline, their whole world revolved around the game, relationships broke up, and families broke up. It was all-consuming and his behaviour sounds no different to a lot of the people I met in that game.

The same goes for FPS Like COD and fortnight etc, to be in a team you need to be good, which means loads of practice and spending time online to max out your character etc. They literally can't afford a night off, it's like a drug. It becomes all-consuming. That's why they hate family events and holidays. They don't want to be away from the PC because they are missing out, they get agitated and miserable because all they really want to do is be back in the game.

You can help him be in the real world by stopping the gaming. This is obviously leading to horrendous issues for him. It’s an addiction that is ruining his life. You must get him off line.

This has been both a depressing and an uplifting post with regards advice. My son did the wrong degree course and dropped out year 3. Got a couple of ad-hoc temporary jobs and now has not worked for 18 months. He is at home and I 'keep' him. He is neuro-divergent and has dyspraxia which makes finding a job harder. Ex tells me to throw him out as pp have said to you. He is depressed and has low self-worth and at times I have really been scared about his mental health and, honestly, whether my son would still be living when I got home. I feel for you as this is so difficult. No advice except, as you have read on here, you are not alone. Ignore the posts re kicking him out!!!

Why are there so many men in their 20s wasting their lives? It’s endemic.

They're always video gaming, work-shy, unmotivated, “depressed” & living off mum and dad.

no previous generation has been so pathetic.

i should say, ADHD people have no idea how to 'tidy a room.' You have to break it down into small, doable stages, one by one.

Did i miss where the OP said he had ADHD?

You are enabling him. Why would he change ?

turn wifi off. remove all gaming devices. start charging him rent and if he doesn't do it tell him go somewhere else. and stick to your word.

Why should she have to spoon feed an adult man? A rude, ungrateful, disrespectful, lazy adult man?!

oh here we go. the usual ADHD excuse.

your son is lazy and entitled. that is not adhd.

My DD 19 IS currently diagnosed as clinically depressed following a death of her DB, plus residual PTSD from a violent assault 3 years ago. Life has not been easy for her and she suffers a lot, but somehow she's still kind to her parents and family, and still goes to work and applied to school (there have been several days when she asks for help: e.g. to for me to set alarms so she won't just lie in bed because she feels so down or for me to drive her and make her go into work or to ask me to review an application as her brain is so exhausted she has no idea if she's missed things) If you ARE depressed, it makes life much more difficult, but it means you have to work harder than normal to overcome it and you need to get help.

I don't know if failure to launch is clinical depression, it sounds more like he's in an easy habit he doesn't want to break. Depressed people don't want to be sad. He doesn't express any desire to break this habit. This idea that mental health makes a young adult incapable of launching into the world is bs, I believe. I also think that men somehow can't figure it out like women can...I'm not sure if it's male entitlement or male immaturity. Probably a bit of both. OP, the best thing you can do is give him three different deadlines: 1. Clean Room 2. Contribute to household tasks. 3. Get job 30+ weeks. If he breaks the first one, tell him to expect you will go through his entire room, bag up everything not in drawers/closet and throw it out. If he breaks the second, turn off his WiFi, if he breaks the third, he moves out.