20 year old lazy, dirty son

[PissedOff2020]

Really at my wits end. Sorry this is a lengthily one.

We have 4 boys, eldest is 20 & dropped out of Uni after the first term - well over 18 months ago now. He didn’t tell us of course, had 5 weeks off over xmas and made no attempt to look for work. When we eventually found out and asked why the hell he hadn’t been looking for work he said he ‘wanted to chill and have the xmas break’. He was 19 then.

Mu husband eventually found him a job 2 months later, as ds’s effort was non existent. Zero hours contract and all good at first. His room was a dirty,dirty hovel with a smell coming out (think plates, food, rubbish etc all over floor). Carpet ruined, walls filthy.. clothes all over floor - can’t even open door there is that much shit. Anyway, that’s been a constant cause of arguments in house - just clean it ffs! He’s just got worse with that, we are quite house proud and I resent the smell upstairs- it’s a joke. He never contributes to household chores, despite countless conversations about it. Just does the bare minimum to get by.
Faat forward to now, his zero hours is currently working out at 8 hours a week. Been like that for 3 months and he’s not bothered to look for a job. We’ve told him he needs full time job, job hunted for him, sent him linked to apply - he does nothing. He sleeps all the time and games all night, sat in his filth.
Took him abroad last month, in the hope to speak to him away from the augments at home and also let him see life outside his bedroom. He slept all day, total waste of money. When I spoke to him about it he couldn’t see any issue with staying in his hotel room all day.
Over the last 2 months he’s got even worse, doesn’t even speak to us. Literally walks in a room and ignores us - we say hello, he has headphones on and so can’t hear anything, but makes no effort to acknowledge us etc. He eats meals if we cook, otherwise lives off sandwiches and cereal.
I have had enough, it’s intolerable. Constant tension and frustration in the house over it. Spoke to him and said I felt like he was treating us like doormats and he has no gratitude for what he has and enough was enough. Told him, the atmosphere in the house with him ignoring us was awful, just made us feel like he doesn’t give a shit about us. Asked why he wasn’t applying for jobs, he shrugged his shoulders. Told him we are not working our arses off, both working full time, for him to work a day a week and sleep all day. Then do not a thing around the house and blank us in the process.
Eventually it finished in a huge row after he snarled he’d apply for jobs but we shouldn’t speak to him at all anymore. Genuinely like he was angry we expected him to work. To add, even before his hours were really slashed he’s only ever worked around 25-30 hours per week at best. He’s had it so easily but he hasn’t a single bit of appreciation. We’ve spoken to him a year ago when he said he was unhappy at work - suggested all sorts, he was going to look into things but he never did.
I just don’t know what to try next. Explained to him over and over before yesterday this is his chance to build his career, we are supporting him whilst he does that. He’s not though, he is quite happy to do nothing and wait until it’s at breaking point - which is where I am at.
Anyone been here? Any advice from any others?

I have three sons and two are autistic. There are bare minimums I required when they were all at home. And sadly if they didn't want to adhere they could leave and pay their own bills/ live in their own filth.

Speaking to you and being polite is a bare minimum as is working full time. Set some proper boundaries and time schedules.

God some replies are absolutely brutal here, ‘’kick him out’’ no wonder people feel like they’d be better off dead sometimes. Speak to your son instead of giving demands.

I completely agree with @HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend . Helping him with small tasks that improve his daily life, and nudge him in the right direction is way more productive than tossing his stuff into a binbag ion the doorstep. He needs a hefty nudge but he also needs support. If that doesn't work, rethink. But it's a better place to start than aggression and rejection.

and talk with him. I'd assume DC were depressed if they behaved like this.

University covid lockdowns broke some students if they were totally alone in halls. Even those that came home it was pretty bloody miserable. My DS had a girlfriend which helped

Yes he needs help but he needs to want it. Ask him if he is happy? That simple question may be the first step.

And no wifi at night... as others have said. It will help him regulate and feel more like working!

Totally agree

I agree with PP’s that there may be some MH issues involved, but it’s also clear that the current situation is

Instead of focusing on him working more, I’d sit down with him and talk about his situation in general. What does he want to do with his life, how can he achieve this, what are the obstacles, etc. Something’s holding him back, perhaps he is depressed or he could simply be unfocused and has got stuck in a rut. He needs a plan to move forward.

*unsustainable.

He isn’t coping with life and it’s not tenable for you to carry him at this age. If you can get him to the gp, I would be asking for assessment for depression and for referral on for e.g. autism.
Slightly longer term, you could look into whether your local council has assisted or semi assisted living for young people who struggle with everyday life and work. Don’t know if it’s exists, but I think it should.

On a positive note at least he has the A levels! .
I empathise and feel your pain as we have had a similar issue with my 18 year old. I do not like the way people try to blame the parenting/ judge . Our son was OK precovid. He started to get addicted to gaming during the lockdowns when he was supposed to be online schoolwork. As we were at work we couldn't monitor him and didn't realise he was doing it until he admitted it a lot later. ( keyworkers) Managed to get good gcses though and turned it round. . Developed anxiety and poor health in 6th form due to picking biology A level and had to repeat year due to poor attendance.
Sounds as if your son possibly has anxiety/ depression and is using gaming as an escape. Mine certainly did. Constant arguments / mind games .
Dropped out of school due to anxiety in December and spent too much time in bed. Had no motivation and didn't care. Has had cbt which helped a bit. . Its been awful . We limit the keyboard to about 5 hours daily as its the way he socialise and take it off him at 10.30 pm which causes battles . He does have a part-time job now and is going to restart at college in September but I'm not convinced he will stick at it .He regrets wasting 2 years but is still lazy. If he doesn't continue job/ start college we will be cutting off all access to the WiFi for him and refusing to buy him anything but the basics. Also will insist he goes to doctor and get some medication. Had enough of it all. Its affected everyone in family. My husband and I fall out and my mental health has been affected badly . Close to getting antidepressants.
Throwing them out isn't really an option though as they will end up homeless and on the streets . Rents are ridiculous as well
I have no real advice. I have to pinch myself sometimes as I can't believe he's ended up like this.

Out of curiosity did you ever teach him to clean? I had to teach my DDs step by step by step …. Saying ‘clean your room’ can be quite overwhelming to someone who doesn’t have a clue where to start. Mine are in their teens but now do it happily once a week as they have a process that they follow.

This could have been written about my brother honestly. He's just as foul- however he's now 27 and because my parents didn't do enough to kick him up the arse when he was never going to change. They kept thinking of him as a child but at the same time saying "well he's an adult now... I can't tell him to switch off the xbox at 11pm even though it shakes the whole fucking house and wakes us up all night every night". PLEASE don't be like them. You need to stop thinking of him as an adult and continue to parent him until he acts like an adult. He needs all the restrictions at home you would place on a 13 year old, because that is how he is acting.

Turn off the WiFi/change the passwords and stick to it until he's done his room. Like earning a bit of screen time as a child.

Take away his xbox and drive it to your work if he's being particularly horrible to you. Like punishing a kid. All the punishments except for stopping him going out.

Until he's found a proper job tell him he is not having any allowance from you. Don't subsidise ANYTHING.

Ghost of Christmas future:
My brother literally said to my mum last month - "I don't know why you bothered having children because you don't want to look after them" HE'S TWENTY FUCKING SEVEN. He still thinks he's totally their responsibility.

He works 10 hours a week at the same place as my dad. He works 8pm-11pm but got asked to work till 2am last month because someone couldn't come in. He rang my dad demanding my dad sit in the car from 11pm-2am to wait for him. When he refused and said he needed to get the bus, he came home at 2am and pushed my dads stuff off the side onto the floor and disconnected his phone from being charged. (Why didn't my dad find this scene and storm upstairs and pummel his shitting xbox to dust!?! I don't even think he confronted him)

He's about 30 stone, prediabetic and both his knees are already fucked. He's got a massive food addiction to the point where he gets paid and 80% of his money is spent on takeaway food, despite my mum cooking every night. He ordered £40 worth of KFC last week and ate it all. Then called in sick for 2 days because he had heart burn and the shits.

My parents have to LOCK AWAY all food that isn't healthy stuff hes not interested in. They have hiding places for biscuits, chocolate and crisps even peanut butter (he eats it like winnie the pooh) and ham slices all over the house because my brother will see someone's bought 12 packs of walkers and eat them all in 1 sitting or a pack of ham and scoff it all in 1 sitting. When asked why he would do that he shrugs and says - "I was hungry get over it they're just crisps" AND THEY DO.... Why don't they send him to the shops IMMEDIATELY to replace the item, id be like "get your shoes on and get to coop to purchase me more". I would do that every single time he steals until he's fed up with it. My mums been reduced to keeping their food in a shed which she locks with a literal padlock.

Hes offered extra hours all the time but he has "nothing he wants" he has no ambition in life other than to eat shit, play video games and sleep. He has told my parents he is going to live with them until he dies.

He has zero friends. He's totally rejected a world outside of his bedroom, his only friends are some world of warcraft Virgins he plays online games with at 4am in America.

The WORST part. Hes a total DICK to them. He has not gotten my mum or dad a birthday, Christmas, mother's/father's day card or present for 3 years. Despite them living in the same house. When confronted he just says its "a waste of money and all a scam" yet spending £40 on KFC isn't a waste?? Hes never cleaned.

Its gotten to a point where I've told my parents, if they die before him they need to prepare him because I will literally never see him a day in my life after their funeral because of how disgusted I am with him. He will just go from expecting to be parented by them to getting parented by me and that is not happening. I've told them quite coldly too that they need to give me a bigger chunk of inheritance in order to repay for my time clearing their house, sorting out their affairs and arranging and paying for a funeral because he will do nothing and on principle he doesn't deserve 50% when he will put in no effort at all.

Rant over!! Sorry this post was a bit of therapy but I see your sons red flags here!!

As well as ADHD, also look at ADD (without the hyperactivity) and possibly autism, although perhaps autism may have been more obvious earlier on.

He sounds as though he has low levels of executive functioning - unable to plan tasks, remembering to check if he needs to plan tasks etc.

Getting overwhelmed and ending up doing nothing/bare minimum.

Possibly dropping out of uni due to not coping living alone and /or not easily being able to plan his days studying etc.

I would help him sort out his room so he has a nice place to study/game etc.
Listen to him but ask him how he finds planning daily tasks and if he tells you he finds it tricky, help him make a check list of daily tasks (flexible for if he’s having a bad day).

I know it seems like he’s being lazy but imagine if he’s not - imagine if he just doesn’t know where to start and he doesn’t want /know how to ask you for help. Explain that it’s ok to find things difficult and that you’ll help him.

If he is depressed as well or only depressed, ask him if he’d like you to go to the GP with him and sort out a plan of action together.

Maybe instead of full time work at the moment, see if he could get part time hours but every day. Something not too stressful and where he can meet other people but not get too overwhelmed by a really fast paced job.

You sounds like lovely parents - it was so kind that you took him away to try and lift his mood. Please don’t give up on him - exasperated though you must be. Your little boy is in there somewhere and I just think he’s finding ‘adulting’ a bit of a struggle.

Exactly this!

We make excuses for the men in our lives and then wonder why they become the shit husbands of the future.
We should want and expect better.
Sending hugs @Hufflemuff that's awful

No YANBU but I think you will find you cannot force him to work full time or anything else. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink it as the saying goes.

I very rarely suggest this, but I think you need to evict him.

Why are so many posters assuming he smokes weed? Nowhere has OP said he is

You took him on holiday ? Jeez
even if he works it’ll not solve the problem on how he treats you and looks after house- even when he was working it was crap according to you

calmly, without accusations, say you are giving him 4 weeks notice to leave the home. That’s it. No arguments. If he tries to say anything or argue just say calmly “ we have given you 1 months notice to leave and you will be leaving then”. Dont debate or engage or explain

if he asks for help calmly, sign post him to citizen advice,shelter etc to get advice. Don’t advise him yourselves.

you WILL have to make him homeless to get him on social radar and for him to be given his options.

if he gets his shit together and makes plans and is ready to leave and ask for help moving etc then yep, help away. Cook him dinner for his first night on his own.

you have to step back and force the severing of the apron strings. Most kids naturally want to do this, it’s normal , he needs some forcing to push him out and to fly.

as I say don’t threaten, bargin, debate or give wriggle room- just, here’s your notice, bye.

I would though, before you do that, insist he makes an appointment with GP and go with him to first explain to GP you are concerned he is isolated, not motivated and dropped out of uni and could he have depression ? Then walk out and leave Gp and ds to discuss or not as case may be. It could be that .

but otherwise, or if he refuses to go to Gp, give him his notice.

having said this, young people’s brains are still developing up to early twenties . So,e very big changes going on which is why so many mental illnesses manifest at this time . I think both my ds were at their most selfish and entitled form 19-23 , but once they hit 25 they became fully fledged humans that could be empathetic and considerate. He’s got a lot of growing brain connections to do still- but you do not have to live with him doing that . This is a modern phenomenon that young people live at home idle and playing and not contributing- my grandparents had fought in wars, worked in factories, gone into service etc even by 17 , families coudnt have afforded an idle man to feed.

What was he like before he went to university? What grades did he get at A level? Do you think he was just completely out of his depth at uni? Did he make friends easily at school? Uni can be really awful for some teenagers.

Does he keep in touch with any friends at all? He sounds very unhappy and depressed. I know it must drive you absolutely nuts - it would me, too, but do you think it's purely laziness or is something else behind it?

Early 20s is a common age for teenage mental health problems to occur. Is he a big weed user?

I don't agree with this at all. If a mother posted this about her daughter people would be far more understanding. There are some awful things said on this thread about a person who is clearly struggling. I say person because he is just like you even though he is male, would you go on holiday then stay in your room all day? Of course not. What might make you do that? What might make you live in a messy dirty room? What might make you disengage with life? Think about it.

Happy, healthy people whether they are male or female don't behave like the OPs son. They just don't.

I have an ASD teenager, not in college at the moment.. but fingers crossed for September !

She has previously had depression (tbh, it was more of a breakdown, due to being undiagnosed). Honestly her room was rank … but it was her room, and I couldn’t go in without it making things worse.

We started with “all pots on the tray outside your room”, she now brings all her pots downstairs and into the kitchen. Then it was no bags “put your rubbish in a leave it outside your room”.. she now sorts it into bags for recycling, and gives it to me.

She is much better now, it’s still slightly chaotic in her room, but not a health hazard.

Turning off the internet won’t archive anything. He needs to go and see a Dr

I would kick him out , give him notice that he needs to find somewhere else to live by a certain date

What is he doing at all the times of the day he isn’t working and isn’t sleeping?

And by day I mean the 24 hours in a day. If he’s sleeping in the day I assume he is up at night? And if he is what is he doing?

I think you need to get him to go to counseling. Get him assessed by a GP but accept that if you can you should pay for some degree of counseling as the online stuff will require a lot of motivation. CBT?

does he have friends? Staying indoors all day on holiday is the activity of a depressed person.