20 year old lazy, dirty son

[PissedOff2020]

Really at my wits end. Sorry this is a lengthily one.

We have 4 boys, eldest is 20 & dropped out of Uni after the first term - well over 18 months ago now. He didn’t tell us of course, had 5 weeks off over xmas and made no attempt to look for work. When we eventually found out and asked why the hell he hadn’t been looking for work he said he ‘wanted to chill and have the xmas break’. He was 19 then.

Mu husband eventually found him a job 2 months later, as ds’s effort was non existent. Zero hours contract and all good at first. His room was a dirty,dirty hovel with a smell coming out (think plates, food, rubbish etc all over floor). Carpet ruined, walls filthy.. clothes all over floor - can’t even open door there is that much shit. Anyway, that’s been a constant cause of arguments in house - just clean it ffs! He’s just got worse with that, we are quite house proud and I resent the smell upstairs- it’s a joke. He never contributes to household chores, despite countless conversations about it. Just does the bare minimum to get by.
Faat forward to now, his zero hours is currently working out at 8 hours a week. Been like that for 3 months and he’s not bothered to look for a job. We’ve told him he needs full time job, job hunted for him, sent him linked to apply - he does nothing. He sleeps all the time and games all night, sat in his filth.
Took him abroad last month, in the hope to speak to him away from the augments at home and also let him see life outside his bedroom. He slept all day, total waste of money. When I spoke to him about it he couldn’t see any issue with staying in his hotel room all day.
Over the last 2 months he’s got even worse, doesn’t even speak to us. Literally walks in a room and ignores us - we say hello, he has headphones on and so can’t hear anything, but makes no effort to acknowledge us etc. He eats meals if we cook, otherwise lives off sandwiches and cereal.
I have had enough, it’s intolerable. Constant tension and frustration in the house over it. Spoke to him and said I felt like he was treating us like doormats and he has no gratitude for what he has and enough was enough. Told him, the atmosphere in the house with him ignoring us was awful, just made us feel like he doesn’t give a shit about us. Asked why he wasn’t applying for jobs, he shrugged his shoulders. Told him we are not working our arses off, both working full time, for him to work a day a week and sleep all day. Then do not a thing around the house and blank us in the process.
Eventually it finished in a huge row after he snarled he’d apply for jobs but we shouldn’t speak to him at all anymore. Genuinely like he was angry we expected him to work. To add, even before his hours were really slashed he’s only ever worked around 25-30 hours per week at best. He’s had it so easily but he hasn’t a single bit of appreciation. We’ve spoken to him a year ago when he said he was unhappy at work - suggested all sorts, he was going to look into things but he never did.
I just don’t know what to try next. Explained to him over and over before yesterday this is his chance to build his career, we are supporting him whilst he does that. He’s not though, he is quite happy to do nothing and wait until it’s at breaking point - which is where I am at.
Anyone been here? Any advice from any others?

No, turning off wifi will make no difference. He'll buy a dongle from Amazon.

The army won't be interested in an unmotivated work shy slacker;then there's the physical side of it;you need to be physically fit also and someone who spends their time at home either sleeping or sitting on their arse gaming.To join the army and make it through basic training you need to want it and be physically and mentally able to hack it.

Thanks for the replies.

We have wondered about depression. He is up and down so then I dismiss it. Pay day he used to quite okay, would go out then etc. Thinking he was down was partly the reason for taking him away, try get him in a different environment and have quality time altogether without all the stresses of work, school runs and housework. He didn’t even want to come, I thought it was help us all and we’d maybe come around the corner. Yes, more fool me.

We don’t pay for anything of his, just food and I can’t see him starve but will stop cooking. We do also charge him a small about of board.

Yes wi-fi can go at night.

The ADHD suggestion isn’t something I’d ever considered so will do some reading up on that.

Going to have a good read through all your replies. Cheers

Next time he's out, strip his room bare. Leave him with a bed, clothes, curtains and basic necessities. No WiFi, change the code. He'll soon realise he's got it good, there are absolutely no consequences for him at the moment. He's still got all his luxuries, WiFi, food, washing etc, so why would he look for a job when you're still providing it all!

You are not being unreasonable but from what you've said it sounds like he could have mental health issues that need addressing.

Does he have any friends? Most People that age would want money so they can go and do things with their friends.

So many harsh replies, it's shocking. Depressed people often behave in unattractive, self-destructive ways. Men in particular find it very hard to ask for help and admit to vulnerability.

Before Uni he was always messy, but as he was studying and at college it was a little easier to tolerate. He used to tidy more often.
He didn’t enjoy the Uni course, partly as it was lock down and all remote learning.

some good advice in these replies. Thank you

I cannot believe people have said this young man is ‘Refusing to function’.

As parent to a young adult myself who sounds a lot like the op’s son, it’s obvious to me that there are severe mental health issues going on here.

All the idiots talking about ‘tough love’ and ‘kick him out’ will be the first to bleat ‘be kind’ on threads about mental health/ or suicide. Such stupidity and double standards 🙄

Depending on the router it may be possible to set up a guest Wifi, initially with the same password as the main one. Then change the password on the main network, and only give that password to other members of the household.

The guest WiFi, which son uses, has limited hours, notified in advance - and turn it off the rest of the time.

I mean - I’m not recommending that as a way forward. Just pointing out it would be technically possible to restrict his access to WiFi while leaving it available to everyone else.

Do people honestly think people CHOOSE to live like this?

You DS clearly has an issue... could be anything from depression through to learning issues executive function disorder and a million other things in between.

Hounding him won't fix it, you'll make it worse... someone whose brain is wired different can't just do what you expect.

I have PTSD, maladaptivity, executive dysfunction and neurological disabilities (invisible disabilities so people assume I should be like them). People doing what you're doing only ever made me shut down and pull away which made it worse.

If you can't live with it kick him out. Honestly being homeless kept on top of it for years as I lived out of a holdall. It forced real world socialization, removed access to many manipulative coping method (like gaming) and helped far more than being bullied and reminded I'm 'not right' every day.

I have two children—twins in fact. One of them is clean, helpful, and very successful academically. The other suffers from depression., anxiety, and ADHD which they are now being treated for. The child with learning and mental health issues has struggled with school, work, and all executive function. It’s not always down to parenting.

Where are you based? See if there is a Spear centre nearby.

Joinspear.org

They work with similar young ppl

Yep, females are held to much higher standards and scrutiny. Males, it's usually oh bless he's probably depressed, ADHD, you're too hard on him, he needs more love, you need to show him how valued he is. I would say it's this tip toeing around the Little Emperor attitude that causes these issues, and weed, lots of weed. Life is too easy for these entitled men. Where's the motivation to change going to come from?

I saw it first hand with my mother and my brother. She was tough with me and my sisters but tiptoed around him. If she'd been tougher with him I'm sure he'd have had more respect for her. Instead he was massively entitled and grew to despise her (even though she was putting a roof over his head and food in his belly). One day, she was creeping around him as usual and he punched her square in the face. Finally my mother's husband told him to leave, and at the age of 37 he had to move out.

Don't be my mother OP.

Most ADHD people only get going in the evening time and are night owls.
With the right medication they can be much more productive during the day and can focus better on mundane tasks.

I feel so sorry for your son that his chance at Uni seems to be over, just like that.
Is there not another course he'd like to do?

Is it possible your son has AdHD? Not all ADHD is hyper unrelenting behavior. It can present with some if the symptoms you describe, like hyperfocus on one activity to the detriment of even basic hygiene. Also loss of interest after initial ‘excitement’ over something new.
He is acting very childish. I would initiate reacting in the same way. Change the wifi password. Tell him unless he’s cleaned his room he’s not getting it back. Move forward from there, laying down basic rules. You have to figure out what will motivate him to change his behavior.

That sounds tough.
I'd say you are worried and feel he needs some input to get his life on track as he is in a rut.

Help him sort out his pit of a room - not doing it for him but break it down into stages - one day pick up all the dirty plates and glasses etc, next day all the dirty clothes. Air the room every day etc.

My patient dad used to come into our rooms every morning, open the window and collect the cups that gathered. I now do that with my DC. It stops the place from becoming too grim. I also check the floordrobe and stray food packaging every night and simply ask in a very reasonable way for these things to be put where they belong. Takes two mins if he does it every day.

Does he need a nudge to engage with the world a bit more? To sign up to Tinder or Hinge? To book tickets for gigs or gaming conventions - things that get him involved in the world beyond his bedroom?

This!

Bag up his stinking stuff, & leave it on the doorstep. Change the locks.
He’s taking the p**s.

Tough love mum & dad. Tough love. Just do it.

Consequences. Cut off all financial and practical support. He cooks, cleans, does laundry and arranges WiFi for himself. He keeps your home clean, including his room, and he participates in family life in a helpful and respectful manner. He find a job to earn the money to pay you a decent amount for his lodgings. Do not lowball this, it helps prepare him for the realities of the world. This transformation happens immediately - put a deadline of a few weeks on it.

Otherwise, he is out the door. Pay deposit and first month rent only in a cheap house-share in a nearby town. Do not pay 3 or 6 months upfront, that will just enable him to carry on his current lifestyle. He needs to be panic, to be jolted into action.

Be very clear with him, he is no longer a dependent child you are obligated to support. He is now an adult whose delinquent and abusive behaviour is damaging your ability to safely raise your younger children, and as such, he is no longer welcome in your home.

You and your husband need to be an implacable united front on this.

Yep, females are held to much higher standards and scrutiny. Males, it's usually oh bless he's probably depressed, ADHD, you're too hard on him, he needs more love, you need to show him how valued he is.

And when they find a partner, she's the one exoected to be running around after them. That's what's depressing.

i should say, ADHD people have no idea how to 'tidy a room.' You have to break it down into small, doable stages, one by one. You need to say: put all your dirty clothes in the laundry basket. Put all dirty cups, glasses, plates etc in on the tray. Take them downstairs. It makes a MASSIVE difference to how well we keep on top of the mess.

maybe have an hour once a week where you help him by reminding him of each of the stages - 30 mins tidying broken down into individual sections, then 30 mins stripping his bed and changing it, hoovering and dusting his room, putting on a wash load and stacking the dishwasher.

I’m going to go against everyone giving him a hard time here and say i wonder if there are any mental health issues at play here? I expect to get a load of people telling me it’s no excuse etc, but it really does sound like there might be. It sounds like he really struggles to function.

I have depression and a neurodivergence and sometimes I find it so hard just to function in daily life and can get a bit like this, albeit not as extreme with the uncleanliness. I just shut down and forget everything and go into my own world.

If there is nothing like that going on then it definitely is unusual.

I can understand why he wouldn't enjoy a course in lockdown.

Is there nothing else he'd potentially like to study - and now courses are much more face to face? Do you have a university near you? He is only 20 - there are so many things he could do!

I do think your post and this thread should be a wake-up call for with sons of a similar age (or indeed daughters) who like to game at night. Not that I think removing the WIFI access is going to help much with job/course hunting, and surely all they have to do is turn it back on again once parents are asleep? It's not the universal panacea for bad behaviour (whatever the cause).

Pity the holiday didn't make him "thaw" and think about what he might want to do.

Also those of you with younger children - hold out against gaming consoles for as long as you can.

I’d kick him out. Give him two month’s notice and tell him he’s gone after that. He needs to grow up and ship out.

He’s had every chance going.

I would second the replies on here suggesting depression. Whatever happened at Uni has knocked his confidence; he feels like a failure and is now failing at other basic aspects of his life. Every row you have just confirms to him that yes, he is a complete loser.

However hard it might feel initially, can you approach him and tell him you don't like seeing him like this and ask what you could do to help? If that feels too confrontational (or you don't trust yourself not to lay into him) then, as another poster suggested, a letter might work. He can then also re-read what you've said later rather than going into defensive mode and missing half of what you say.

There have to be boundaries and that is part of the conversation but maybe start with something he can do that gets him up and out of the house: volunteering, dog walking etc. Just something simple to start with that helps him feel a small sense of achievement.

Be clear that things have to change but that you are there to support him. What did he enjoy before that he could do easily? Cooking, cutting the grass, planning the week's food, shopping, helping his brothers with homework? Stuff that he really can't mess up.

See if he'll get counselling. Maybe stipulate that if he does x number of sessions you'll get off his case, or whatever you think will work. Try and get him to see the GP. Good luck - it's very hard and if he can't articulate what's going on for him then it's doubly hard.

OP - personally I would start afresh for both of you.

id help him tidy his room, it is possibly too overwhelming for him to tackle.

I’d then start by giving him small chores… ensuring his room is clean and free of dishes/clothes.

Giving him the dishes to..

Giving him family task, making everyone’s tea for example

What’s his interests? Can you get him into some volunteer work that he’s interested in?

Go for nightly walks/join him into the gym.

For me I’d cut the Wi-Fi off, during the week… say at 12pm - that way your forcing him to get some sleep.

He’s clearly a functioning adult as he’s working however he’s also taking massive liberties with yourself however rather than buck heads try to get him involved.

if that doesn’t work then it would be tough love but that’s another thread, he may surprise you and open himself up to new opportunities, it sounds as if he’s stuck in a rut and has no direction of what he should or wants to do.