20 year old lazy, dirty son

[PissedOff2020]

Really at my wits end. Sorry this is a lengthily one.

We have 4 boys, eldest is 20 & dropped out of Uni after the first term - well over 18 months ago now. He didn’t tell us of course, had 5 weeks off over xmas and made no attempt to look for work. When we eventually found out and asked why the hell he hadn’t been looking for work he said he ‘wanted to chill and have the xmas break’. He was 19 then.

Mu husband eventually found him a job 2 months later, as ds’s effort was non existent. Zero hours contract and all good at first. His room was a dirty,dirty hovel with a smell coming out (think plates, food, rubbish etc all over floor). Carpet ruined, walls filthy.. clothes all over floor - can’t even open door there is that much shit. Anyway, that’s been a constant cause of arguments in house - just clean it ffs! He’s just got worse with that, we are quite house proud and I resent the smell upstairs- it’s a joke. He never contributes to household chores, despite countless conversations about it. Just does the bare minimum to get by.
Faat forward to now, his zero hours is currently working out at 8 hours a week. Been like that for 3 months and he’s not bothered to look for a job. We’ve told him he needs full time job, job hunted for him, sent him linked to apply - he does nothing. He sleeps all the time and games all night, sat in his filth.
Took him abroad last month, in the hope to speak to him away from the augments at home and also let him see life outside his bedroom. He slept all day, total waste of money. When I spoke to him about it he couldn’t see any issue with staying in his hotel room all day.
Over the last 2 months he’s got even worse, doesn’t even speak to us. Literally walks in a room and ignores us - we say hello, he has headphones on and so can’t hear anything, but makes no effort to acknowledge us etc. He eats meals if we cook, otherwise lives off sandwiches and cereal.
I have had enough, it’s intolerable. Constant tension and frustration in the house over it. Spoke to him and said I felt like he was treating us like doormats and he has no gratitude for what he has and enough was enough. Told him, the atmosphere in the house with him ignoring us was awful, just made us feel like he doesn’t give a shit about us. Asked why he wasn’t applying for jobs, he shrugged his shoulders. Told him we are not working our arses off, both working full time, for him to work a day a week and sleep all day. Then do not a thing around the house and blank us in the process.
Eventually it finished in a huge row after he snarled he’d apply for jobs but we shouldn’t speak to him at all anymore. Genuinely like he was angry we expected him to work. To add, even before his hours were really slashed he’s only ever worked around 25-30 hours per week at best. He’s had it so easily but he hasn’t a single bit of appreciation. We’ve spoken to him a year ago when he said he was unhappy at work - suggested all sorts, he was going to look into things but he never did.
I just don’t know what to try next. Explained to him over and over before yesterday this is his chance to build his career, we are supporting him whilst he does that. He’s not though, he is quite happy to do nothing and wait until it’s at breaking point - which is where I am at.
Anyone been here? Any advice from any others?

I'm not trying to justify poor behaviour, but I do believe it's our job as parents to equip our kids with the skills they need to become functional adults, which includes self-care and responsibility, and respect for the rest of the family, as well as social skills.

So often on hear people bemoan the fact that their teens are rude, lazy ungrateful and spend all their waking hours gaming while only communicating with their family in grunts. It shouldn't come as a surprise that a few years later they turn into useless slobs with no self-esteem, who can't cope in the adult world.

Disclaimer - my kids aren't teens yet, but I am stepmum to a gorgeous young man who has always been given clear boundaries and had expectations set by his parents, and wasn't allowed to fester in his room throughout his teenage years. So many people parent their teens completely passively then wrong their hands when it all goes wrong.

OP, you may not have been this sort of parent - apologies if that's the case - but I wonder how many of the "ugh kick him out" brigade are parenting their teenagers properly.

He may have ND or depression but it isn't an excuse to talk to your parents like shit on your shoe.
If he doesn't want people to talk to him he can certainly have that when he has his own place.

Op, you've tried the nicey nicely approach, it's time to be firm and fair.
Set out when you want him to leave, he needs to leave because even getting work he has you as back up for living somewhere and covering costs.
Give him a set deadline for finding FT work and then a fair time for moving out.
Stop paying for him, not a god damn thing, no if ands or buts, he wants something he pays for it.
Stick to tour deadlines, so make sure you are happy and they are fair but not too lenient.
How this is dealt with will affect his siblings, they need to know you mean business, no one gets a free ride at 20 to skive all day playing games in their room.

Do you think he needs some support or counselling? Reassure him you love him but what he is doing now is unacceptable and outline the consequences if he doesn’t change.
Things I would consider: I would remove his gaming equipment and put it somewhere away from home. Explain he can have it back once he clears his room and starts regular work again. If he wants to live in the house fe needs to meet the standards the rest of you have.
My son was in a tough place at that age but we got through it.

I actually have direct experience of this too. My son dropped out of uni in second year and told us after he had done it. He then worked for a few months as a kitchen porter before being forced home due to Covid lockdown. We know he had some sort of mental breakdown at uni but he just wouldn't tell us what exactly the problem was. He is exceptionally bright, so not struggling academically, much more of a social issue for certain.
Well he behaved like your son and was driving us absolutely round the bend. We eventually paid for a few online counseling sessions which he surprisingly agreed to but was not going to talk to us about at all but seemed to help a little. The counsellor recommended an autism test but he refused this point blank.
The only things that worked were very, very hard. We were totally patient and kind whilst insisting that he was a very valuable and much loved member of the family. As such, respect for everyone else and a contribution to the home was essential. We started off by getting him to cook dinner for everyone for a few weeks. Then progressed to getting him to shop for the food daily, then added in extra chores bit by bit. It was hard to not lose the plot with him but we didn't and made him feel very good about helping us with stuff at home. To be fair, it was very helpful when he ended up cooking and shopping every weekday.
I then saw a local charity that helps young people who have lost their way a bit. He started volunteering in the community with them and this was great as the people that run it were very supportive too.
Now, he is working full time, albeit in a low paid job, and he volunteers one day a week in the community. There is still a long way to go but he is miles better than he was.
It's so easy for people to say just chuck that waster out on the street but when it's your own child you are not going to do that. They would just end up homeless destitute and spiralling further. Good luck, it is incredibly hard.

This. You sound harsh.

First post nails it. He just isn’t taking you seriously at the moment. So set boundaries and consequences and make sure you enforce them. If you don’t, nothing will change.

No Wi-Fi password for him until he get so a job, pays his way and keeps clean. Otherwise he should leave.

He is the worst possible ‘role model’ for your three younger sons.

He needs to pay you rent and he needs to keep his room tidy, otherwise he's out. He has 3 months in which to demonstrate he can pay you monthly and keep his room tidy, and/or find a flat. Then that's it, he's gone. Tough love (and I'm a BIIGGG softy normally!)

I think the OP is well within her rights to be pissed off, I cant see anything harsh. He needs to sort his shit out, he's a 20 year old man.

Can you put some plug in's in his room to try and mask the smell.

Quite. Or take him abroad on holiday.

OP, he's walking all over you. Put some actual boundaries in place. Like fuck would my parents have stood for this. Or job hunted for me!

I think I would take this approach too. It comes across as on his team. I know he's an adult but 20 is still an immature brain. A lot of students live like this (away from
Parents!) so he'll see it as normal.

You might want to say that there is a new no food in bedrooms rule or there will be unless hygiene improves. Messiness, fine he is an adult, but you can't risk insect or rodent infestation or worse!

“He sleeps all the time and games all night, sat in his filth. “

ok so there’s your solution, change the wifi password? Easy. Wifi is a privilege not a given.

he’ll rampage. He’ll call you everything under the sun. Don’t falter. Don’t give it him. Ride out the storm. he can earn it back when he’s working a full time job.

and then when he’s working a full time job, he’s got 3 months to find alternative accommodation.

Tell him to grow up, shape up or get out, your house is not a fucking hotel for a man child.

it’s time to grow up now.

only a few decades ago, men were fighting wars or married with kids and providing for families at 20!!!!

and now we just seem to have a generation of child-men who sponge off their parents and play fucking computer games all day! How is this an option.

I tell you, if I lived at home and was doing this, my mum would have taken the console and hidden it at a relatives, or worse!

Has all of this really just come out of the blue?
Was he absolutely fine in school?
Did he never have the right books in the right class. Did you have to work fairly hard to keep him in a routine for school. Is his handwriting and work messy and untidy?
Does he talk 'at' you rather than 'to' you? Has he always been a bit like this?

There is something going on with his mental health and thus the lack of motivation.
Take out all his school reports and try to see if there is some sort of pattern there.

Has he got any friends?

Have you considered ADHD for example?
Answer this quiz as if you were him and see what the result is...
https://www.unpackingadhd.com/resources/adult-adhd-spectrum-self-test/

People do not set out to be dirty, or lazy or disrespectful.

'Bad parenting' is often bandied about and lack of discipline, blah, being too easy on him blah blah. That is rarely the fundamental problem.

The lad's genes may well be a MASSIVE factor in this. In well supported households ADHD can go unnoticed because there is a healthy routine where kids are minded very well and get help with homework etc. It only starts to show itself when the kid starts to be independent.

I voted YABU because it's ridiculous that you haven't even mentioned telling him to move out. He's an adult ffs.

Why haven't you thrown him out yet? He's not going to grow up otherwise.

I also wouldn't charge rent that's 20%, I'd charge equivalent of say 5 hours work a week. That would motivate him to actually work more. I wouldn't keep it though I'd put the cash into a savings account for him that he can use for deposit when he moves out or a course or something else sensible

This is really good advice. Set targets with him and be firm about him meeting them (remove gaming equipment, change WiFi password, whatever). If it was my son if also be adding a requirement to take up some form of weekly exercise, which will massively improve his mental health and self esteem.

People who are happy don't behave like this, so it really isn't as simple as "why would he do anything if everything is done for him".

Bag up everything in his room into bin bags and put in back garden. If he wants anything he can sort through, launder and return. It's your home so your rules.

Yes to the exercise too. I used to drag mine out for walks regularly, which did us both good. They talk a bit more too if you're not looking at them!

It's not that you're too soft or bringing him up wrong. My son has two siblings who are the polar opposite.

He sounds incredibly depressed. I would try to get him some help. I think he needs love and care, not tough love. Put aside the job thing temporarily and focus on talking to him about his emotional state.

Good post above

@PissedOff2020 - answer- no, of course, YANU to want him to work full time.

I think you have done all the right things OP - really lovely of you to take him away (it was good thinking to talk to him away from home environment, change of scene for him etc) and it’s a shame that he didn’t take advantage of it. I believe he must be very unhappy, or have extremely low confidence (why didn’t Uni work out for him? was it the work, or social aspects?). You haven’t mentioned any kind of social life… does he have friends, he sounds quite reclusive, maybe he plays games online with them now instead of meeting up in real life?

Whatever the reason, it can’t continue.
I do agree with you that now “he is quite happy to do nothing and wait until it’s at breaking point” .
You are reaching YOUR breaking point and have given him so many chances, and such a lot of help and support but he is either too depressed to take advantage of it, or genuinely so lazy he can’t be bothered and he will just continue to take the mickey.
So now it is time to force HIS breaking point on him. Sadly the gentle approach hasn’t worked, now it’s time for the tough love.

@Peppermint81 said
Help him clean his room up, hard to start on a huge mess on your own and sitting in that environment can only be making his depression worse. Wallowing in your own shit etc

This is absolutely right, so (giving him the benefit of the doubt, in case he really is so low that he needs it) here are my suggestions on how to handle it:-

1/ Give him a deadline (eg/ 2 or 3 days time) - preferably ending the day before his next shift at work, to pull his finger out and clean his room
“I expect you to bring down and wash up all crockery & cutlery, clean out all rubbish and food waste, and sort out laundry”

2/ Assuming he does not do that (most likely) - while he is at work, YOU go into his room and do that for him. Yes, he might kick off about his privacy being invaded but hygiene is now being breached and it remains your house.

3/ Do any washing for him, and some basic tidying - just to find the floor - and make his room look a bit less daunting. Obviously this is also your chance to clean it, open window etc. This may take ages and even mean taking a day off your own job (which many others on here will think is far too soft) but I can tell you genuinely are trying to help him and I think you might be more comfortable with the next steps, if you are kind enough to do this for him.

4/ Then change your Wi-Fi password. You, your DH & other DCs will be able to access it because you know the new password.

5/ When he comes home, talk to him (warn him) before he actually see his room. Tell him that you have cleaned his room to get him to a good starting point but things are changing from today - in future, the bare minimum you expect is only one cup/mug/glass/bottle to be left in his room at any one time (reasonable for a drink) but no food should be eaten in there (hence no need ever for plates, bowls, cutlery). And you expect his bin to be emptied and floor to be vacuumed once per week (bin day?).
I suggest that you teach him how to operate the washing machine and make him responsible for his own laundry too. I do suggest that you are not too fussy about the room being in a mess going forward though (and you can even tell him that- by way of a compromise?). Untidiness by itself - if he keeps his door closed- doesn’t affect anyone else and isn’t too much of a problem if there is no smell emanating from his room but cleanliness & hygiene is non-negotiable.

6/ Tell him that other things are changing too. Warn him that Wi-Fi is no longer available to him. I would suggest that when he has maintained the rules for his bedroom for a week you will consider sharing the new password with him. This won’t go down well - you could maybe just put nighttime/ parent lock etc on? if you want to try a softer approach - but I would go cold turkey to show him you mean business. Possible even consider taking away his gaming console…

7/ He needs to find a job - by certain deadline? - or at least show you or DH his applications, and be seen to make an effort.

8/ either now, or further down the line, I would suggest some other basic house rules - but these must be easy to quantify
eg/ no wearing headphones walking around the house, polite to other members of household (say hello/good morning, thank you etc), paying a % of wages for his keep, regular chores (eg/ wash up every Tues & Thurs), cut grass

The bottom line here is - this is the breaking point, this is his last chance for you to help him.

If he doesn’t make an effort to get his act together you will be forced to kick him out because he is unpleasant to live with, and a bad example to his siblings, he is no longer a child or your responsibility.

However, if he does needs help you are prepared to help him. But he needs to engage with you and want to change things, you cannot force him so this is the time to bring up his mental health, and possibly suggest seeing the GP, especially if he does need medication or talking therapy for any issues like depression or gaming addiction. But maybe he just need encouraging- PP said- can you help him get into a routine?
“could you help him timetable a day - with some chores in it, go to the gym, apply for jobs” or encourage him to see friends, or spend time with his brothers.

The most important thing is he need to believe that you are serious - and must want to try and help himself

Good luck

It sounds to me as though he's really struggling and possibly has depression/ADHD. Executive dysfunction springs to mind as well. He probably doesn't understand his behaviour himself so trying to explain it to you will be even more difficult. Angry outbursts and shutting down are the results of frustration. It's definitely worth exploring mental health issues before labelling him as just lazy. The signs are often more difficult to spot the closer you are to someone.

I know some will say it's so easy to blame everything on mental health issues and that "everyone" these days seems to have ADHD, ASD etc. but I think it's just that we're more aware and open to talking about it now. Please have a calm chat with your DS and really listen to what he has to say, if anything. It may take time.

I know two young men, in their 20's who have had mental health struggles and both displayed behaviours similar to your DS. One, luckily, has a very supportive family, sought help from his GP, has had counselling and has turned a corner. Very sadly I'm going to the other young man's funeral in a couple of weeks. He was 27.

This sounds like my family home. My step brother is about 9 years older than me. He messed up at uni and dropped out (in his defence he has health probs), came home, got a factory job which in our little town was enough to rent a house share with his mates in his twenties. At about 27 he was made redundant and moved back into the family home. As I went off to uni, he went back to a different uni while living at home, rent free (which I think is fine while studying ). At the end of my first year, I u got my results and came home for the summer. He kept saying his results aren't in yet. It was clear he'd failed and wasn't going back for second year. Eventually he had to admit it. This was 2006. Since that day my two other siblings and I have moved out and two of us have families (step brother in question is oldest). All the while, since 2006, he has been living at my parents rent free, smoking weed all day, being aggressive, rude, untidy and smelly.

My mum is about to retire. My step dad is retired. They should be enjoying life as grandparents. Instead they tiptoe around and aggressive man baby who bloody stinks.

Please act now. Don't be my mother

He’s 20? Kick him out
Unless he really is depressed of course. But he would need to accept support with that.