Woman stripped and left topless in a cell!

[Dovetail40]

This is disturbing to read. I hope a proper investigation is carried and the missing time videos are found so she knows exactly what happened to her.

Sky news Greater Manchester Police

Hibiscrubbed
Where have I defended the police - if they are wrong they need to be sacked and jailed.

Catchasingmewithspiders

If you are going to start accusing me of things you need to really back it up with something.

With the same argument then - 90% of everything you post is wrong and inaccurate.

I’m not saying they’re breaking ‘media law’. Im not going to pretend to be an expert there. I’m saying the reporting is inaccurate in a number of ways I’ve detailed in my some of my posts and has glaring holes in it. Actually I think there’s some genuine concerns about the lack of record on the custody record for removal of clothing under s54 PACE. But there’s so many issues with the report have they properly reviewed the custody record at all???

I’m a senior detective who has led many complex investigations of the most serious nature. I might not be a custody officer but I’ve got a decent grasp of the legislation and procedures and there’s some real issues with this report. I think making out the real concerns about her treatment has become impossible for me because the reporting is so poor. No other reputable news channel seems to picking this up.

Its not a ‘defence’ of the police. What’s the point of engaging in conversations like this to be one sided and defensive. I’ve given throughout a number of posts what I think is trying to be a balanced view of what I perceive to be failings regarding this incident and more generally. But I’m not going to say this is a good or accurate piece of reporting. It’s not.

Ok so women everywhere are sick to the back teeth of the restricted lives we lead due to male violence and their insatiable “needs” to tug their dicks, which seems to be growing every day in an overly-sexualised society. Everything that happens to remind us of the contempt men show for us daily infuriates all of us.

One point of interest - a pp critiqued the relatively light issue of this woman knocking off a policeman’s glasses. As someone who gets attacked in course of work quite regularly, I can tell you what this innocuous statement is code for and why it features in the report, specifically:
“The individual under detention then launched a vicious and entirely unprovoked assault on someone trying to do an honest day’s work, hitting them in the face, probably repeatedly, probably trying to attack in other ways as well, showing no social restraint or awareness that their victim was anything other than an inanimate punchbag. Well, not quite, as the assault on the punchbag would not have been so frantic. In the course of that assault, the policeman victim had a very valuable piece of personal property damaged. Not only will it cost him a full week’s worth of wages to replace - meaning it will be a year or two to save up to replace, taking up his hard-earned funds that he could have used on a holiday or - why not, it would be for me, preventing him from keeping a promise for his kids birthday present or developmentally-appropriate toy/ tool. No doubt it happens fairly often and he is sick of it. It also means that for the rest of that year he has damaged glasses that impact his ability to do the job, will be reminded of this and other attacks every time they fall off his face - and it will degrade the view of his working capability by his superiors.

Maybe work will pay for them, probably not, and certainly not every single time theses assaults happen. That’s why we put knocking off glasses in reports. I have to admit that reading that has changed my initial reaction to this report, and @IMustDoMoreExercise is entirely right - All workplaces have to be such that decent people can actually make a living in them, every day, day after day. All professions are being taken over by those with no real feeling for the original purpose, or by individuals losing that feeling, because their daily lives in it are hard.

But the reporting is pretty muddy about what is and what isn’t on the custody record. Why haven’t they mentioned whether there is an extension of her detention period which requires superintendent authority after 24 hours and a judge after 36. Because there hasn’t been one. It’s really likely she was seen by a doctor and sectioned because as they say it’s all over the record she’s not fit for detention. At that point she’s declared unfit for detention she would either need to be taken directly to hospital or a doctor attend custody to assess and direct a bed is found for her. I’m assuming it’s the second option. Then she spent ages in custody waiting for a bed as usual because a cell is being used inappropriately for an unwell person.

Yes. We have been for years. We are in an impossible situation. We are not the right service but no one else will go and we have a duty to preserve life. People in severe distress end up in custody.

I’m saying the reporting is inaccurate in a number of ways I’ve detailed in my some of my posts and has glaring holes in it.

I think if you're going to say a report is inaccurate you should do a list, quote what the report says, and state factually what is inaccurate. As it stands, it's really difficult to gauge from your posts what are the inaccuracies are.

Well it’s a bit repetitive really because I have said and quoted the relevant legislation because I would rather try to explain what I’m saying so that it makes sense and gives context as some of these issues are worth discussing still. You can do an advanced search on my posts which will show you. I think it will also provide some reflections on concerns that I think really are present to some degree here. However if more than one person would like me to write a very long post I will do so later tonight.

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 09:14

I’m assuming that the unseen footage (it’s not missing, the police have it) might not have been handed over because it’s evidence that’s being used in an investigation?

Lets try again

The police need to follow the law.

The law said she gets the full footage.

The police have failed to follow the law as the data office failed to deliver the footage.

You believe that the police are carrying out an investigation.

So is the data officer under investigation for not following the law?

PS what version of Stop Resisting do you use.

I think that the poor staff performance in keeping custody records is one issue of training and culture.

A nurse or doctor is trained that the information provided in medical notes can and will be used (against them ) in a court of law.

Plus If senior management are providing the training they need to add in metric of how long on average each type of task takes.
Problem with that is bean counters end up being paid out of the general budget

But what I’m saying is the sky report doesn’t say it isn’t recorded. They just don’t mention it which is bizarre. I can’t say how exceptional it would be for something like that not to be recorded. They would definitely have mentioned that. Its false imprisonment to detain someone without lawful reason.

But if there are issues in the record and it sounds like there are in other areas ie. no justification or record of clothing removed they will be investigated for misconduct. Depending on how serious the misconduct is it can mean losing your job.

I agree that there is a distinction around her hospital visit either between being in the custody of the State (controlled by police laws or doctors laws) or making a choice of her own free will to go to hospital.

And people who full believe the media outlet and never the police need to question why one should be given a free pass.

And for its not reported in the BBC etc that is good fact based reporting (they dont have any). If the woman involved trusts the outlet she is free to hand over the documentation she has or the media outlet management can send out investigation team to find facts.

and therefore the police need to switch on and accept that they have to do this, and do some training on it, or not?

There is no end to the excuses for their incompetence in so many ways, but on this i am actually with them.

But - the problems are there still there. They can continue to act inappropriately, and be rightly critisised for it, or they can step up.

From the IOC regarding subject access requests:

“What should we do if the request involves information about other individuals?
Where possible, you should consider whether it is possible to comply with the request without disclosing information that identifies another individual. If this is not possible, you do not have to comply with the request except where the other individual consents to the disclosure or it is reasonable to comply with the request without that individual’s consent”

If the CCTV shows others in the cell with her who can clearly be identified and who may also be committing an assault against her, then this is grounds for omitting that recording under a SAR.

Brefugee

So what do you suggest we do in order to 'step up'?

For example we have a suicidal individual who frequently goes to bridges to jump off. We talk them down but the mental health team will not have anything to do with them. Their family & friends have disowned them, they live alone. Where do they go?

And we have loads of people like this.

And is often just left to the police to 'sort it out'

So which is it

The police have no obligation to redact only the personal data of third party data subjects therefore no legal obligation to provide the (redacted) footage of the data subject to the data subject.

Or

An Individual officer was given entry to secure area where part of the right of entry is based on compliance with standard work pratice (of being recorded) and that decision to entry can not be taken as consent to data collection plus police have no obligation to redact only the personal data of third party data subjects therefore no legal obligation to provide the (redacted) footage of the data subject to the data subject.

Or

An Individual officer was given entry to secure area where part of the right of entry is based on compliance with standard work pratice (of being recorded) and that decision to entry can not be taken as consent to data collection plus although the officer committed an offence the police can deem it reasonable to not to comply with the data request plus police have no obligation to redact only the personal data of third party data subjects therefore no legal obligation to provide the (redacted) footage of the data subject to the data subject.

You frequently ask women what the police need to do to fix their problems.

And you have been told before that (as with the context of this thread), to stop assaulting, raping and illegally strip searching women, children and POC.

Seems simple to me. Have a woman having a psychotic episode in your van, dont disappear for several hours and return with a woman who appears medically to have been sexually assaulted. Because I'm pretty sure raping the people who should be dealt with by the mental health services isnt "stepping up"

The police are chronically underfunded and understaffed. So are the NHS. The police routinely deal with people with mental health issues. So do the NHS. Yet weirdly the NHS manages to do this without resorting to assaulting, raping and illegally strip searching the general population.

The Police aren't part of the NHS, they should never have been doing this in the first place.

If there is money for more police recruitment, training and secure beds, then it might be better to put that into NHS MH services?

I get that the police aren't trained.
There is nobody else to do it.
So instead of feeling all put upon (and again, to be even more clear) the police need to incorporate training in de-escalation techniques for such situations.

Because otherwise all the heavy-handed incidents make the police look even worse. And trust in them sinks even lower.

How many times?

WE KNOW.

And yetit won't change. So you need to adapt to learn to handle it better.

And everyone needs to lobby and vote for governments who will allocate resources where they need to be.

Nope, the Police do not need to adapt, you might as well expect Nurses to deal with traffic policing.

Until the Police stop doing this work, the Govt will take the piss and the public wont care.

People in this country seem to vote for lower taxes above all else.

I’ve arrested a number of NHS staff for sexual assaults and rapes, care workers, teachers the list goes on. No profession is above that sadly.

It’s more than de escalation though. It’s treatment and proper assessment of whether someone’s violent behaviour is due to a mental health issue. A bit of de escalation training, which they already get, doesn’t replace a professional nurse or doctor. It’s appalling that people in mental health crisis are fobbed off like this. No one sends a police officer with a first aid certificate to physical health emergency. It’s outrageous that they’re kept in custody and waiting for mental health beds in my opinion too. Not the place for someone who is unwell

Absolutely agree. The mental health services where I like are virtually nonexistent despite being award winning 15/20 years ago. I have people in my extended family that are seriously mentally unwell and can be a danger to themselves and others and my house is one of the places they often show up when they are unwell. I've resorted to just not opening the door because the last time I called 999 for help the ambulance didn't show up and I don't think the operator took me seriously or realised the situation I was in. My relative was asking for help at the time, they wanted to be sectioned. But when no one showed up hours later they wandered off by themselves in a state of being half dressed.

BBC News - Greater Manchester detective guilty of rape of 12-year-old child
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-66340947

@Dovetail40
I had a lovely voice message left on Twitter from Zayna asking me to tell you ladies that she has seen our mumsnet thread and thanks for all of the support she is receiving on here

I don't want to miss quote her words but part of what she says it's not fair the public have to see the degrading videos of her just to have it investigated and still 29 months later she hasn't got it all. She will keep fighting GMP for the missing footage and will prove she is not lying
Xx

Bless her I just can't imagine what she's going through. Strong woman.
Thanks for sharing the Rise interview OP