Children should be told to give up their seat on a bus if there's an adult who finds it harder to stand.

[DesolationRow]

I was on a packed bus today with my friend who's in her late seventies. She's not frail but is clearly an older woman who walks quite slowly and hasn't got the best balance. We were going to the seaside and as it's the first day of the school holidays there were lots of families with young children on the bus. Many of the seats were occupied by children from toddlers to early teens and absolutely none of them offered her their seat and their parents neither told them to nor offered their own seats.

Do most people now really think a child should have a seat of their own when there's someone who needs it more? If so, why?

I realise there will be some children with disabilities/ conditions that mean they do need a seat of their own but most preschool children can sit on their parents lap and most children over five can stand for a bus journey can't they?

having been in this situ where an older man demanded my daughter should give up her seat, I think sometimes it’s easy for some to assume children “look” ok to do so. (My daughter is 14 but cant stand on a moving bus safely)

the guy kicked off at me, but didn’t give a moment to consider asking the rest of the adults on the bus. I found it upsetting as he was almost making me out to be a bad (and standing) person.

So would you not just say, sorry, he's had a hard day and he's tired, can we ask someone else?

I agree with you that people shouldn't presume kids can stand. People shouldn't judge, but they should feel okay to ask.

Children should give up their seat to any adult who is standing. They are either young enough to sit on the parent's lap or old enough to stand. That's how I was brought up and how I brought kids up. It teaches them respect, compassion, consideration. We have a new generation of entitled people thanks to selfish attitudes like those seen on this thread.

A child to me is more unsteady on their feet on a bus where a fit heathy adult with no medical issues would be more steady so I would prefer the adult in this example to give their seat up than a young child

Children should give up their seat to any adult who is standing. They are either young enough to sit on the parent's lap or old enough to stand.

Just because they're young enough to sit on a lap doesn't mean it's actually possible at that moment. I have a younger child who is generally on my lap already.

Also, as an able bodied adult, if I was standing on a bus I would think it was bizarre if a child (or anyone) stood for me. If a 10 year old was on the bus first, I don't think I'm more entitled to that seat.

@WeWereInParis I think it's decent because you'd be teaching your children to consider other people's needs as well as there own. Most 8 year olds can stand for a bus journey and should feel proud of themselves for helping someone else when they can.

My children have been brought up to give up their seats for elderly or pregnant/with young children. It’s common courtesy once they’re able.

When someone starts a sentence with "so" in this way, you know they are misrepresenting what you said - and, in this case, offering up a False Choice fallacy. Too predictable, I'm afraid.

I always find it fascinating that ageism directed at younger people is fine/acceptable / encouraged.

but, god forbid someone sideeyes an older person

Agree able bodied people give up seats or adults move young children to their laps.

I actually had this conversation with my 11yo dd today as she’s going to be getting the bus to high school. I’ve told her she has to give her seat up to anyone who needs it more than her. It’s actually in her new high schools policy when children are travelling to and from school they have to always offer someone (elderly, pregnant, with young children) their seat. I like the policy.

Of course they should but it just doesn't happen any more. Mostly because people are selfish and also everyone stares at their phone and doesn't notice fellow travellers.

I was on a crowded tube in rush hour last week and noticed a pregnant woman standing in front of me so gave her my seat. I'm a woman of pensionable age but all around us (apparently) able bodied men just stared at their phones.

it was the same when I was pregnant in London over 30 years ago. I commuted into Chancery Lane so the tube was full of barristers, solicitors and legal clerks in pinstriped suits. I could have given birth in front of them and they wouldn't have budged. Only overseas students ever offered me a seat. And recently the now adult DD from that pregnancy fainted in a commuter train and was left lying in the aisle!

@HorseyMel ok. Would you rather enough buses were run, that everybody got their valued seat for a of 3 miles, without a ticket price increase I guess? Run by some inept halfwit….but it’s ok, cos he’s cheap

My children are all young adults now but I would mortified if they saw an elderly person/pregnant woman/anyone in greater need than themselves and didn't offer to give up their seat. I know that they would all do this without question, regardless of having paid full fare. Its just kindness and common decency 🤷‍♀️

You’ve never been on a bus near me then. Sudden braking and turning corners without slowing down is the norm on some bus routes. Not to mention the driver takes off before people are sitting. I’ve went flying many times.

To answer the OP. Able bodied adults should be giving up their seats, it shouldn’t automatically be young children who are always expected too.

You dropped the "so" but kept the False Choice fallacy. Well played. I'm totally "ended". You win. You should tell all your friends about it at the weekend and join a debating team............

You described a parent offering their own seat rather than their child's seat as "shitty behaviour".
The parent standing is demonstrating considerate behaviour. That's not "shitty behaviour".

I was brought up like that. As a child I sprained my ankle when I fell on a bus because I was standing, I got a couple of cuts and plenty of bruises. I have a friend who got concussion after being sent flying and hitting her head. And nowadays I see little kids who are standing get knocked around by adults pushing past and the sway of the bus all the time. Doesn’t help that there are fewer handholds at their height.

The trouble with looking at it just like this, though, is that while small kids may well be as likely or more likely to be injured if standing, they are far less likely to be injured in a way that has severe lasting consequences than someone 70+. Physically, children heal much faster and more completely than much older people (in general, obviously there are a few rare conditions that mean this isn’t entirely universal). So that sprained ankle of mine was a (fairly minor) problem for a couple of weeks, if I’d been 70 it might well have broken and I might not have walked properly for the rest of my life.

I don’t agree that kids should be expected to stand for healthy adults in their 20s - 50s. But I would expect them to stand for anyone who was old enough to be frail as the need is greater.

Did your friend ask anyone ?

Me and my kids have always got up and given our seats to someone less able, even when they were very young. I could not in good conscience sit there, or let my kids sit there while someone struggles.

I was thinking this 🤣

As an aside we were in Disney earlier this year, you can you imagine the amount of kids that had to stand on the buses to get to the parks, shock horror not a single one fell over..... it's almost like it's a perfectly normal and fine thing for kids to do.

I'm always touchy about this subject since I stood up on a train for half an hour for a pregnant woman and she didn't even say thank you. I had burning sore feet from been stood all day at work, and it's made me bitter since 😂

@HorseyMel you are very much overanalysing what I’ve commented. I’m not on a debating team as you clearly have identified and therefore apologise if I’ve lead you into a “false choice fallacy “
I understand if you’ve had enough and left, but it was a legitimate question of mine! It’s very easy to blame the supposed fat cats draining the system dry…..but also is it not just general courtesy to offer your seat to someone less able?

When my kids were small I would have stood up myself and left the two of them sitting (they’re skinny so easily able to share a seat). Once they were stable enough to stand one of them would have stood up. Though I really think the people you should be annoyed with are able bodied adults who should stand up.

I remember getting on a very crowded bus when I was heavily pregnant and not a single person offered their seat. There was an elderly man sitting down and he kept trying to give me his seat. He was so distressed! I was certain I was more stable than him so was pleading with him to sit down. Eventually a young woman stood up for me. The whole experience was such an eye opener.

YANBU but I see more and more no manners and entitled parents

@DesolationRow but do you also teach your child to to consider how many others will consider them? Or are you teaching them to be subservient?