Children should be told to give up their seat on a bus if there's an adult who finds it harder to stand.

[DesolationRow]

I was on a packed bus today with my friend who's in her late seventies. She's not frail but is clearly an older woman who walks quite slowly and hasn't got the best balance. We were going to the seaside and as it's the first day of the school holidays there were lots of families with young children on the bus. Many of the seats were occupied by children from toddlers to early teens and absolutely none of them offered her their seat and their parents neither told them to nor offered their own seats.

Do most people now really think a child should have a seat of their own when there's someone who needs it more? If so, why?

I realise there will be some children with disabilities/ conditions that mean they do need a seat of their own but most preschool children can sit on their parents lap and most children over five can stand for a bus journey can't they?

So adults don’t have to show manners or be respectful then…

As a teenager with ME, I took the bus to school. Not all disabilities mean a child will have an adult or any other carer with them. I certainly couldn't stand up though.

Do buses still have the sign saying that children should not occupy a seat whilst adults are standing? We had to sit on our parents lap, or stand by our parent who would hold on to us for safety.

Don’t forget the people who sit on the end of a 2 seater so that no one sits by them. Or those that sit by the window & put bags on the aisle seat for the same reason. Most people won’t say anything to them either.

Children travel at a reduced fare which was the reason they were expected to give up their seat for an adult.

Having said that, I am able bodied and wouldn't expect a child to stand up for me.

I have in the past asked people to give up a seat for someone clearly struggling to stand, just a general shout out and there is always someone willing to help.

Most people are decent but often away with a mixer, staring out the window or at their phone.

Have people never heard of ‘respecting their elders’?

I wouldn’t expect a child to stand up for me but offering is manners (I wouldn’t accept unless I was in need of a seat).

I have heard of it. I also think it’s rubbish.

I will respect everyone unless they give me reason not to. Just because someone is older than me doesn’t mean they are any more worthy of my respect than someone younger than me.

I think you have to pay until state retirement age which is not 60. And under 21s have to pay though they can get reduced fares with a zoom card.

I do. I tell them to move their bags or move over/ get up so I can pass them.

Do they not? That hasn't been mine experience. But maybe if the person was a 18 stone think of muscle with prison type tattoos all over them? No one has a problem asking women or children to move.

Different parts of the UK have different rules for children and OAPs. For most of us in England, it's state retirement age.

Scotland it's 60 and free bus travel for under 21s.

My 4 year old DD has suspected Asd. She will not sit on my knee and she definitely won’t stand. she has to have a seat of her own. And if I stand up she will become distressed that I’m now no longer next to her and a stranger now is. Why can’t an able bodied adult stand, instead of this insistence on picking on me and her just because one of the two of us is a child? Able bodied Susan on the across to us can move- why aren't you challenging her instead? Why just target children?

I don't believe anyone should be challenged specifically on a bus or train regarding a seat, but the bus or train carriage should be generally asked. That way no one who needs that seat isn't being asked and then had the embarrassment of saying no, I need it myself. I've been in that situation a few times and it's not the end of the world but it is awkward.

if someone less able to stand is already in the seat they aren't obliged to give it up because another less able person comes along.

Better still don't ask anyone specifically just ask the bus "can anyone give up their seat?" That way no one is picked on

Well there’s no way she could have guessed that your 3 year old hadn’t slept in 24 hours. It’s not very common for pre-schoolers to go on entire day long journeys that prevent them from sleeping.

I assumed that children under 5 were free on public transport with the assumption that if the bus got full you put them on your lap. I guess that’s what she was expecting too.

Yeah true, I agree.

I wonder if less children sit on laps now because as a nation we are fatter and have less lap for the child to perch on.

Wouldn't we have more lap if fatter?

I have, but since most of my "elders" were abusive,dismissive,entitled arseholes, i decided it was bullshit

Not if a lap is already occupied by a belly, children are also fatter

I wouldnt make an under 10 stand. Nor sit above a 3yo on lap.
Also seems a bit sexist as often women with a child so even if they have paid in full they get sat on.
i wouldnt get anyone to stand for an adult. Just an elderly person/pg etc etc.
my parents are nearly 80 and so much stronger than children and in general can stand longer walk further.
Frailty is generally older than that.

Possibly the older person bus pass should suggest avoiding peak time travel...
As often the child will have a necessary journey to school etc.
Usa is rather different as they dont even have roundabouts.
Its hard enough to contain a young child on public transport.
Its not the standing though its being able to hang on with sudden stops.

However there are a lot of older unfit kids. Several at sports day can even slowly jog 600m!
PT is really awful in uk. Unreliable/ crowded/ late/ expensive. If it were cheaper maybe we would use more often and gain confidence of children using it safely.
I used to not drive with children under 6 and the bus was awful. Nowhere to put pushchair etc.

My dc offered seats up when they were too big to sit on my lap.

They also (now older teens) will sit on the floor if there isn't enough seating in the living room and we have people over.

They also offer their seats up if say they're sat on one of the chairs in the pharmacy and someone elderly is waiting.

My dc have lovely manners, it's always picked up on and has really opened up doors to them as they are lovely and helpful. I feel sorry for dc who are raised to be entitled. It doesn't make them likeable.

The able bodied adults and teens should be offering up their seats first. Your anger is directed at the wrong age group. I wouldn’t expect a 6 year old to manage the complexities of standing on a bus journey. It’s quite a skill on certain routes.

Anyone who is able to should offer their seat to someone who was less able to stand, however I don’t think children automatically need to do it more than an adult.

Teenagers don't magically think to give up their seats.. especially if they haven't been taught. If they've been taught that they don't have to think about others than they don't magically start to think to get up because they turned 13. Especially at such a developmental age where they become more self absorbed.

I would always ask my children to stand from age 8/9 onwards for an older adult. They like standing and have lots of energy / stamina. They could also lean in against me.