Page 11 | Children should be told to give up their seat on a bus if there's an adult who finds it harder to stand.

DesolationRow · 2023-07-25T21:23:39+00:00

I was on a packed bus today with my friend who's in her late seventies. She's not frail but is clearly an older woman who walks quite slowly and hasn't got the best balance. We were going to the seaside and as it's the first day of the school holidays there were lots of families with young children on the bus. Many of the seats were occupied by children from toddlers to early teens and absolutely none of them offered her their seat and their parents neither told them to nor offered their own seats. Do most people now really think a child should have a seat of their own when there's someone who needs it more? If so, why? I realise there will be some children with disabilities/ conditions that mean they do need a seat of their own but most preschool children can sit on their parents lap and most children over five can stand for a bus journey can't they?

rosewatergin · 26/07/2023 08:25

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Naunet · 26/07/2023 08:27

This thread reminds me why I hate people.

I agree with you OP, was always the way when I was growing up, but people are a lot more selfish and raise entitled little shits these days with an attitude of ‘why should I?’. No manners, no consideration for others, no compassion. It’s a shameful way for society to behave.

Mumofsend · 26/07/2023 08:27

It genuinely baffles me how children 6-12 are seen as more physically able to stand. They can't reach the handles and aren't as steady on their feet even on solid ground.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 26/07/2023 08:29

Anyone who can safely stand , should give up their seat for someone who can't. Not just children.

I've given up my seat for various people including small children/their parent.

DD does as well , and one of the contributing factors was the fact that when she was little other people got up for her/us .

LuluGuinea · 26/07/2023 08:29

Goldbar · 26/07/2023 08:25

It's not humiliating and degrading expecting your child to give up a seat for those who need it more, it's empowering. It's treating your child like an actual member of the society they live in, which they can contribute positively to in their actions and attitudes. There are a lot of parents who seem to treat their children as being fragile and in need of cosseting from the world, whereas actually children are a lot more capable than we give them credit for. Teach them to look about themselves and notice who they're sharing space with, and to consider the needs of others, and even at 5/6/7 they might start offering to give up their seats themselves. I sometimes wonder idly whether those commuters who sit staring doggedly into space/at their books/at their papers, ignoring pregnant women and people with obvious mobility issues who are standing, had 'mother hen' type parents who clucked and fussed around them and made them feel that their comfort and convenience was the most important thing in the world. And they've just carried these attitudes into adulthood.

I agree about it being empowering not humiliating. I'm horrified that people who don't need a seat themselves would refuse to give up their seat if asked to.

B72 · 26/07/2023 08:30

My parents always made us stand for an adult on public transport, unless we were still small enough to go on their knees.
I did the same with my kids.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 26/07/2023 08:33

Goldbar · 26/07/2023 08:25

It's not humiliating and degrading expecting your child to give up a seat for those who need it more, it's empowering. It's treating your child like an actual member of the society they live in, which they can contribute positively to in their actions and attitudes. There are a lot of parents who seem to treat their children as being fragile and in need of cosseting from the world, whereas actually children are a lot more capable than we give them credit for. Teach them to look about themselves and notice who they're sharing space with, and to consider the needs of others, and even at 5/6/7 they might start offering to give up their seats themselves. I sometimes wonder idly whether those commuters who sit staring doggedly into space/at their books/at their papers, ignoring pregnant women and people with obvious mobility issues who are standing, had 'mother hen' type parents who clucked and fussed around them and made them feel that their comfort and convenience was the most important thing in the world. And they've just carried these attitudes into adulthood.

More likely they're of an age where they "earned" their seat and expect others (current children) to do their bit. If they aren't any oh well, they've "earned" their seats . This is a frequent debate on MN and yes , posters actually say that they've given up seats as children so now will sit because they've earned it.

sweepleall · 26/07/2023 08:33

Sirzy · 26/07/2023 07:35

Surely the easy answer with younger children is to sit them on your knee meaning nobody needs to stand!

This is probably partly because I am short but I can't comfortably sit with my 4 year old on my lap, I don't have that much lap and I definitely can't do it with my 6 year old

Naunet · 26/07/2023 08:35

Mumofsend · 26/07/2023 08:27

It genuinely baffles me how children 6-12 are seen as more physically able to stand. They can't reach the handles and aren't as steady on their feet even on solid ground.

Are you serious, a 12 year old?! So you’ve never seen a 12 year old ride a bike presumably, or a skateboard or excel at gymnastics or anything else that requires balance? But you do see women in their late 70s doing these things? Give over.
Handles aren’t all overhead either.

Goldbar · 26/07/2023 08:36

sweepleall · 26/07/2023 08:33

This is probably partly because I am short but I can't comfortably sit with my 4 year old on my lap, I don't have that much lap and I definitely can't do it with my 6 year old

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They don't really sit at that age, they kind of perch on the edge.

BitOutOfPractice · 26/07/2023 08:38

@Naunet you have nailed exactly the phrase I was looking for. “Why should I?” That seems to be the society we live in now. A Why Should I society. And I think it’s miserable.

WalkRun · 26/07/2023 08:38

This is about role-modelling as parents. My husband and I always offer our seats to people. I look up at every Tube stop to see if someone needs the seat more than me. I now have 17 and 20y olds who leap up to offer their seats unprompted.

When they were little, I could put them on my lap till they were ten-ish as they were slightly built. Of course not all kids are like that, and nobody should put their own kids in danger.

But it you can safely offer your seat to someone who needs it, then that’s a good thing to do. Some people are selfish, but I don’t need to be one of them.

liveforsummer · 26/07/2023 08:39

Mumofsend · 26/07/2023 08:27

It genuinely baffles me how children 6-12 are seen as more physically able to stand. They can't reach the handles and aren't as steady on their feet even on solid ground.

6-12? Really, surely that's when they are at their fittest/most robust?!

Mumofsend · 26/07/2023 08:41

liveforsummer · 26/07/2023 08:39

6-12? Really, surely that's when they are at their fittest/most robust?!

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Not my DC. Some are more robust but many are not.

Goldbar · 26/07/2023 08:43

BitOutOfPractice · 26/07/2023 08:38

@Naunet you have nailed exactly the phrase I was looking for. “Why should I?” That seems to be the society we live in now. A Why Should I society. And I think it’s miserable.

I agree. What comes across from this thread is that some people don't really view themselves and their children as being part of a wider community/society.

If I take the bus with my 5yo and my mother who has just had a hip replacement and is presently using a walking stick and there is one seat, of course my mother will sit down and DC and I will stand.

Why does that change because the walking-stick user in question is not related to me/part of my group?

Goldbar · 26/07/2023 08:45

Mumofsend · 26/07/2023 08:41

Not my DC. Some are more robust but many are not.

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Ah, well if they have mobility/stability issues of their own, then of course children should sit down. I don't think anyone is arguing that sick/frail children should be made to stand.

Tapasgoofy · 26/07/2023 08:53

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 26/07/2023 07:19

Children should give up their seat for an adult anyway.

Why? Because they are a child. Times have moved on for the better and kids don’t need to give up their seats for a able bodied adult just because they are older.

liveforsummer · 26/07/2023 08:53

@Mumofsend I'm guessing by your user name that your dc have additional support needs which if that affects their mobility of course they should not be able to stand but you used 6-12 year olds as a general guide. Majority of this age range are absolutely able to stand in the absence of ASN that might prevent it.

LuluGuinea · 26/07/2023 08:56

Tapasgoofy · 26/07/2023 08:53

Why? Because they are a child. Times have moved on for the better and kids don’t need to give up their seats for a able bodied adult just because they are older.

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But would an able bodied adult be asking them to? In my experience it's not those who don't need a seat that ask for a seat/expect it to be offered them. Why would they?

Tapasgoofy · 26/07/2023 08:57

LuluGuinea · 26/07/2023 08:56

But would an able bodied adult be asking them to? In my experience it's not those who don't need a seat that ask for a seat/expect it to be offered them. Why would they?

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I’m reply back to a statement that says children should give up their seat for any adult.

Tapasgoofy · 26/07/2023 08:58

LuluGuinea · 26/07/2023 08:56

But would an able bodied adult be asking them to? In my experience it's not those who don't need a seat that ask for a seat/expect it to be offered them. Why would they?

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But probably because as you can see from this thread some adults think they deserve a seat instead of a child full stop.

One person wrote because children have the rest of their lives to sit. Ridiculous.

BitOutOfPractice · 26/07/2023 09:03

Anyone would think that the “kids should stand” contingent are saying children have to lie on the floor like a mat and lick the shoes of passing adults 🙄

Flossflower · 26/07/2023 09:03

On the positive side. Travelling on the tube with my mother in her nineties. Everyone always stood up.

LuluGuinea · 26/07/2023 09:04

Tapasgoofy · 26/07/2023 08:58

But probably because as you can see from this thread some adults think they deserve a seat instead of a child full stop.

One person wrote because children have the rest of their lives to sit. Ridiculous.

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Maybe so, but I think people can say a lot of things when they hiding behind their keyboards. In real life I couldn't imagine an able bodied adult asking a child for their seat just because they think they're more entitled to it..

liveforsummer · 26/07/2023 09:07

BitOutOfPractice · 26/07/2023 09:03

Anyone would think that the “kids should stand” contingent are saying children have to lie on the floor like a mat and lick the shoes of passing adults 🙄

I know. It's no wonder there are so many entitled dc and young adults now. It's what they've been modelled and unfortunately don't know any better. I highly doubt any able bodied adult is expecting a dc to move for them however these days, with a better understanding of hidden disabilities if someone who appears to be did ask id still hope someone would move.