Children should be told to give up their seat on a bus if there's an adult who finds it harder to stand.

[DesolationRow]

I was on a packed bus today with my friend who's in her late seventies. She's not frail but is clearly an older woman who walks quite slowly and hasn't got the best balance. We were going to the seaside and as it's the first day of the school holidays there were lots of families with young children on the bus. Many of the seats were occupied by children from toddlers to early teens and absolutely none of them offered her their seat and their parents neither told them to nor offered their own seats.

Do most people now really think a child should have a seat of their own when there's someone who needs it more? If so, why?

I realise there will be some children with disabilities/ conditions that mean they do need a seat of their own but most preschool children can sit on their parents lap and most children over five can stand for a bus journey can't they?

@HorseyMel @MichelleScarn

How callous. I hope when you are elderly people are more compasisonate.

@HorseyMel There will always been queues at certain times, just statisically impossible to avoid as otherwise bus fares would be extortionate.

Did your parents have the same attitude as you? It is lacking compassion and empathy.

I have a hidden disability and would struggle to stand for any length of time on a bus. As a child (able bodied) we were taught that it was a condition of travelling half fare that we gave up our seat for any adult. Under 5’s traveled free, and were expected to sit on their parent’s lap or sit two to a seat. Not all adults accepted a seat, but we had to offer. That way someone with a hidden disability didn’t have to draw attention to it, and the able-bodied could choose to stand if they hadn’t just done a full day’s work.

I would move with my DCs, who are 10 and 12. The younger is only just stable enough to stand on a bus now. I have offered my seat and left DC sitting when they were younger.

Young DC are not stable standing on transport, part of it is anticipating the movement of the vehicle. Also important to remember that many children have hidden disabilities like Dyspraxia, autism, muscular skeletal issues.

Children shouldn't be considered last and I think many (not all obv) parents take their responsibility to care for their children far more seriously now than in the past, and are they expected to. It is a tricky one, as the parent on the bus has an obligation to keep their child safe and questions would be asked if that child were injured in their care.

No, adults or older teens should offer their seat. If I was with my child and an elderly person needed a seat, I’d stand up and leave my child safely sitting.

When I was a child, yes my mum would tell me to stand up for an older person, but that was only from late primary school age. But then, seatbelts in cars weren’t compulsory, you often saw children riding in car boots, or sticking their heads out of windows, or sitting on parent’s laps, etc. We know more about safety now so younger children wouldn’t be expected to stand. Although they’re able, their size and youth makes them more vulnerable than an able-bodied non-pregnant adult.

I always have and always will offer my seat if someone else obviously needs it. Irrespective of age.

ds is generally in his wheelchair on public transport (which is a whole other issue!) but if he wasn’t he would need a seat more than most much older people on the bus.

OP, why is it that you think children are less deserving of a seat than adults?

That's okay for many children from about 8 but it would be better to let infants aged children stay with their caregivers if there are others who can stand. Some children would be anxious separated from a caregiver and surrounded by strangers and some too anxious to loudly say excuse me to get an adults attention so they can get through.

But being separated on the bus isn't an issue unless you are talking about a very young child who would be on parents lap anyway.

Surely the easy answer with younger children is to sit them on your knee meaning nobody needs to stand!

Small children of lap sitting age would feel anxious about being separated, yes. Older children would manage fine.

Sirzy, exactly! But that would be too easy, and using common sense !!

It can easily be an issue for a 4 to 7 year old child. Parent's lap may already have a baby or toddler on it.

It's pretty common to have more than one young child.

I hadn't thought of that. Good point.

We are always on the bus, mine are 4&5 - I would give up my seat, but unless it were unavoidable I'd prefer them sitting down, they're still not very stable and need help standing on the bus.

I think it has changed since I was a kid when kids were always expected to move, I think because they paid a half fare. But now we seem to view anyone able bodied and above about 8 as the same in this scenario

I couldn’t agree more. Awful responses on this thread - the lack of compassion or empathy for anyone outside their own self-entitled bubble is very sad.

I would stand for a disabled, elderly or pregnant person and leave my DS seated if only one seat was required. I think my DS would need to be approx. 4 or 5 for me to get them to make way for a vulnerable person too (unless we were sitting in the priority seating). I would expect other healthy adults to give up their seats ahead of my DS giving up his standard seat.

Most five year olds are perfectly able to hold an adults hand and stand for a 15 - 20 minute bus journey. If the journey is longer then I may be more hesistant.

When exactly did I say I thought I should have a seat on every bus?

I was pointing out that the poster who said everyone over 61 gets free travel was wrong.

I stood on quite a few of the buses but on some people offered me a seat. I am a bit unsteady on my feet but as long as I can hold on with both hands I am fairly ok. Doesn't help that London bus drivers seem to think they are in a race.

On one journey I was seated and a man of about 80 got on who was unsteady. I stood for him even though most of the passengers were younger than me,

What annoys me is when a mum has one seat and her young child (say 2 to 5) has a seat as well. That child should be on the mum's lap if people are standing.

Oh and I am certainly not your sweetheart. Not sure what you point is with the silly comment about millionaires. I am far from being a millionaire and so are all the other pensioners I know

I'm with you OP dc would have been placed on lap and once they were to big for that they'd have been big enough to stand. They'd rarely even have needed prompting. It's hardly teaching them to be subservient by expecting a for robust dc to stand over and elderly/frail adult. My eyes were also opened during a discussion on a different forum over this though so I'm not actually surprised no one stood sadly

If it's not safe to stand, then nobody should be doing so and the bus should not accept passengers once full. And the bus companies should be forced to add additional buses to accommodate this.

People misuse the word 'entitled', as if someone is always expecting/demanding a service to which they have no right. But the fact is, if you've paid you're fare and got there first, the seat is yours.
Lots of elderly people are very good at sharp elbowing their way to the front of the bus queue and demanding seats from younger people by trying to shame them. But sitting is safer and no one is obliged to compromise their own safety for a person who decided to get on an overcrowded bus.
I do think lots of adults would offer to stand for a person who was obviously very unsteady but ultimately it's their choice. Trying to embarrass or shame kids into doing it, as if they are lesser people is rude behaviour imo.

This is a fair point, actually. I hate how bus drivers allow their bus to be over capacity.

Yes, in Scotland anyone under 21 or over 60 gets free bus travel, Scotland wide.
Means the fares have sky rocketed for everyone else. Thankfully only have to get the bus on rare occasion, but feel for those on NMW!

Agree @LadyBird1973 and I see how my use of word subservient has upset a few people last night! What other word would fit for the entitled expectation for someone to give up their seat just because the other person expects them to because they were born first?

It's not humiliating and degrading expecting your child to give up a seat for those who need it more, it's empowering. It's treating your child like an actual member of the society they live in, which they can contribute positively to in their actions and attitudes. There are a lot of parents who seem to treat their children as being fragile and in need of cosseting from the world, whereas actually children are a lot more capable than we give them credit for. Teach them to look about themselves and notice who they're sharing space with, and to consider the needs of others, and even at 5/6/7 they might start offering to give up their seats themselves. I sometimes wonder idly whether those commuters who sit staring doggedly into space/at their books/at their papers, ignoring pregnant women and people with obvious mobility issues who are standing, had 'mother hen' type parents who clucked and fussed around them and made them feel that their comfort and convenience was the most important thing in the world. And they've just carried these attitudes into adulthood.