To think that pregnancy care SHOULD be focused on helping women to have healthy babies?

[CatusFlatus]

This article in a medical journal advocates the taking of testosterone by trans-identified females during pregnancy, despite the proven and potential risks to the unborn child.

The claim that ‘gendered’ pregnancy care is too focused on helping women to have healthy babies and that it is acceptable for transmen to continue taking testosterone during pregnancy, despite the proven and potential risks to the foetus because of, for example, concerns the transman has about being mis-gendered or their desire to be regarded as a pregnant man.

They claim that the desire for ‘normal foetal outcomes’ is problematic because it is born of a wish to protect babies “From becoming anything other than ‘normal’” and reflects the “Historical and ongoing social practices for creating ‘ideal’ and normative bodies.”

This is insane.

There are no causal links or proven risks that should read.

Well… I have ASD and frankly it has made
my life immensely difficult. For me - I can’t speak for anyone else - it has been a disability that has had an enormous impact on my happiness and quality of life. Perhaps all the more so because it’s supposedly ‘mild’. So yes if it was actually caused by a
medical treatment I’d say fuck no, don’t put an innocent child at risk of that.

Well, it's a way to get data as to whether taking hormones actually causes DSDs/Autism/left handedness/miscarriage/height/sexual preferences/teratogenic effects without having to get it past an Ethics Committee, I suppose. Because it would be essentially experimenting upon the foetus in a way that would never be allowed in the normal course of care - and with the advantage that no birth mother could ever sue them afterwards because it was something they demanded.

There are no causal links or proven risks that should read.

However they do not appear to have enough data to ascertain if it's safe.

Increased risk of ASD sounds pretty concerning to me.

Realistically a child of a trans identifying person is more likely to be autistic anyway, factoring in the hereditary aspect.

I couldn’t buy eye drops when I was pregnant.

Yes, but if they saw a statistical upswing where additional hormones were added in their experiments, they could then possibly theorise that supplementing with female ones could counteract it - thus creating a fucking cure for neurodiversity or homosexuality or the absolute limits to fucking with hormones to peak physical and intellectual performance without social or physical side effects. As they'd see it, anyhow.

This is human experimentation in the womb, couched in 'let's be kind to the birthing parents here' and mistakenly allowed on the argument that if Abortion on Demand is the only acceptable option, then it's reasonable that anyone pregnant must have the right to consent to a foetus they wish to carry to term to be experimented upon.

If they choose to put their baby at risk when pregnant then I'd hope that social services would be involved to make sure that the same pattern won't continue after birth.

Is there no end to the selfishness and narcissism of the trans movement. 🤬🤬

I have ASD & ADHD & am not straight but think it’s society and it’s stupid, baffling rules plus NT/straight people bullying me that have made my life miserable. I wouldn’t want to change me though.

I'm sorry, but I know women who give up coffee, certain foods- ie cheeses, alcohol, and change their medication for their MH (last pregnancy I came off of my antidepressants and chose to be monitored by health professionals for my OCD and Depression)
Instead of allowing any risk to my inborn child.

I do not agree with taming testosterone that has not been absolutely ruled out to be OK during pregnancy.

I know in theory it's very easy to make these judgements on people when we aren't in their exact situation, but if you choose to have a baby, some of the sacrifices come during pregnancy for the wellbeing of your children.

The difference is that those foods/chemicals have proven risks to the unborn child that have been exhaustively studied with causal links, amount of exposure determined and so on.

That isn’t the case for excess testosterone and looking at studies of PCOS women who naturally have excess testosterone there haven’t been any health risks per se linked to testosterone as opposed to say genetic or other environmental factors for a slightly higher association of their children being later diagnosed with PCOS, ASD or ADHD or having a non straight sexuality.

It’s all virtue signalling bollocks. It won’t happen

I think the ethical/philosophical questions it raises are interesting, and very much in need of debate. (How far should we go to promote societal norms?)
But I find the scientific/medical aspects of the article very weak. PCOS doesn't just cause women to appear unnaceptable to society (not my opinion-paraphased from article), it's linked with infertility, diabetes, increased risk of blood clots.
The autism /ADHD debate doesn't surprise me. I've seen similar kickback against other medications known to cause these conditions.

@GreyDuck
Yes I agree it is an interesting debate. However please note that the scientific literature on female babies born to women with PCOS later developing PCOS themselves hasn’t identified a cause other than genetic factors. There is hypothetical speculation that the excess testosterone might possibly also be a factor but nothing has been shown positively linking excess testosterone in th womb as a cause of PCOS.

So are you under the impression that there have been sufficient cases for long term testing, trials and investigation for anyone to say this and true level of conviction what any long term harms are?

And the levels of testosterone in pcos women is nowhere near those taken by transmen

YANBU. Taking testosterone in pregnancy should be illegal.

Other sources suggest it causes a range of birth defects and you shouj stop it immediately you become pregnant

I am disabled (not from birth,for full disclosure) but it impacts my life significantly, and life would be easier and essentially better if I wasn't. Anyone saying otherwise either has never come across disability/chronic I'll health, or hasn't got the emotional honest of saying "I appreciate my life and it is good, but would be better without illness or disability".

Oh I hear you. People talk about those with autism being rigid, intolerant, lacking empathy. I’ve been on the receiving end of all of these from supposedly NT people, while we’re expected to be understanding of society’s rules and get no understanding in return.

If there was a pill I could take, I really don’t think I would. I’d love to have been born NT though, or at least ND in a way that was much more obvious. My life has been wasted on social anxiety, depression, being told I’m rude, lazy, unlikeable, grumpy, too sensitive, too emotional, etc etc etc ad nauseam. “Mild” AuADHD is absolutely no joke.

No. It’s like many things in category B.
“Animal reproduction studies have failed to demonstrate a risk to the fetus and there are no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women.”

Current evidence suggests that no, there is not

Such as? I did a quick search and found only hypothesised associations.

Well the nhs for starters