Friend unknowingly insulted me and I can't get over it

[LemonLight]

I've been really ill the last few years, long story but it pulverised my fertility and I had to have aggressive IVF to get pregnant. My friend knows I've been ill but i haven't shared the details or that I had IVF despite her persistently pressuring me to tell all (actually to the point where I had to say stop, I'll talk when I'm ready) - I feel she is too immature and tactless to handle it without upsetting me.

A twist of fate, she recently started a new job (admin) at an IVF clinic and stupid me thought maybe she'll develop some empathy and I'll find it easier to talk to her about it. Nope!

I met up with her and another friend for a coffee and asked her how her job was going and cue a long rant slagging off the poor patients that go for treatment at her clinic. I couldn't believe it, it froze me solid. She made some really unkind comments e.g. it makes women look old and haggard, they must be stupid to waste their money, pathetic for being that desperate, they should just adopt etc.

I know she doesn't know about my troubles but it hurt listening knowing I'm amongst those people she's insulting. Even if I told her now and she was nice about it I'll know how she really feels. DH and I spent thousands on treatment and did multiple gruelling rounds, it was so traumatic. Every time I think of her I remember all her comments and mentally recoil.

How do I move on from it? She wants to meet up soon and I have no desire to see her.

Your friend really has a conflict going on within herself doesn't she. She sounds very naive and pushy.
I bet she didn’t talk like that about IVF patients when she interviewed for the job.
You shouldn’t feel obligated to keep seeing her, knowing that she can be the opposite of dependable, well mannered, thoughtful and considerate.
I would try the slow fade if you can but if she keeps pestering, I would have no alternative but to tell her that I needed a break from her company for a while as I found her attitude upsetting at the last meet up. Then don’t be drawn into further conversation but tell her you will be in touch some time after the summer if she could find it in herself to leave you in peace for a while. Hopefully she will develop the humility to figure a few things out about how she presents herself.

Did the other friend not say anything? Im agog if so. If I heard someone spout this kind of offensive arsegravy I couldn’t not and I’ve not been through what you have!

For your own sanity you need to step back from this woman. She sounds absolutely appalling and, honestly, even if you didn’t have fertility issues, is someone with those views someone you want to be friend with?

I’d want to anonymously email her workplace too, but I’m an absolute petty prick like that 😂 and wouldn’t actually so do it.

I hope you can move past the hurt and find better friends

I agree with this too. I don't think your friendship can recover and it doesn't sound like you (understandably) like her very much.

“Not being a mind reader” would be an excuse for insensitivity - like talking excessively about your own pregnancy to someone who has just had a miscarriage, but hasn’t told you. This is just telling on yourself as a person.

I had a very similar situation with a friend, totally different circumstances, but in the sense of her giving her very strong opinions about something not knowing it was relevant to me. To me, all I could get from it was Ok - this is what you’d think of me. I stopped talking to her - we were good friends but I would never have been able to get
past her nastiness.

She sounds vile. Nasty and callous. Get her out of your life!

I know she doesn't know about my troubles but it hurt listening knowing I'm amongst those people she's insulting. Even if I told her now and she was nice about it I'll know how she really feels. DH and I spent thousands on treatment and did multiple gruelling rounds, it was so traumatic. Every time I think of her I remember all her comments and mentally recoil.
Ok she wasn't deliberately trying to insult you. That's as far as the good part goes. I think you're right. Even if she'd had a bad day and was ranting as a result, those are very specific, personal comments. It's not like she said, "Some people can be a nightmare to deal with." I've not had IVF or fertility problems and before I replied I had to reread your post to make sure I'd understood correctly what she'd said: it made me mentally recoil too.

She made some really unkind comments e.g. it makes women look old and haggard, they must be stupid to waste their money, pathetic for being that desperate, they should just adopt etc.
Clearly you don't look old and haggard then 😉 Seriously, she's one of these lucky people who can have strong, judgemental opinions on a topic with no associated empathy because she's got no idea of the pain involved in it. If ignorance is bliss, she can think of IVF and feel totally fine, superior even, because she's totally ignorant about it. It doesn't make what she said though remotely ok. I feel sick thinking that anybody going through IVF has to even make an appointment via her.

How do I move on from it? She wants to meet up soon and I have no desire to see her. why do you want to move on from it? Do you need to? Is the relationship really important? Why? What does this person add to your life? You've already placed her outside of your inner circle by quite some way with not telling her about what's really been going on in your life (and that seems to be to have been innately sensible!). What happens if she's moved out a further few rungs?

I wouldn't want to be her friend and I've never had any fertility issues. I'd step back, but if she ever asked why I probably would tell her.

She sounds like she's quite unhappy generally.

You are not a doormat! I expect you were in shock (as would I be) because your so called friend has, unknowingly, belittled everything you have gone through.
Next time you see her, I would ask her why she is even working there and then tell her that you found it really offensive and sadly, can no longer be friends with her.

Yes, I think that’s a different issue. I might vent about undergraduates’ disorganisation or academic colleagues’ minor lunacies etc to a friend, but I’m not going to be criticising their appearance or slagging off vulnerable people!

She just sounds like a horrible person! Why do you want to be friends with her anyway?

And that.

OP, you describe her as immature and tactless, but I think that’s a kind interpretation of her cruel and spiteful attitude to people who are vulnerable and engaged in a physically- and emotionally- taxing process with no guarantee of success.

I think too you should inform the clinic. But not so she loses her job (tempting though..).

Go for the extra training angle.

If you don't want your name attached (understandable), put it in a snail mail letter. Explain you're doing this anonymously because you don't want to be named as your own IVF has been a private journey and you also don't want this linked to anybody specific on their team. Explain you heard a member of their (admin) team in public saying XYZ (haggard, desperate, adoption plus anything else). You think their admin team could benefit from training on the emotional hardship - trauma for some - that IVF is.

Anyone who speaks about other women who are struggling with infertility like that, wouldn’t be someone I’d want as a friend.

She sounds hideous, immature and nasty and who needs a friend like that? She should absolutely not be working in an IVF clinic so what on earth possessed her to do so (unless desperate for any job)? If anyone had overheard her and reported her to her employer she could find herself being disciplined, not to mention given a talking to about her appalling attitude.

Does she have DC herself, or may already know that she has fertility issues? I wonder if this is her lashing out as it’s something she may never be able to afford herself and she is bitter about it?

I wouldn't be bothered about her insulting Mr, as who cares what her opinion is. I would be bothered about how cruel she was about people struggling to have children and in a very vulnerable place. Is there any chance this is projection and she's struggling to conceive herself and trying to cover it up? I had a friend who was gay and for years tried to cover it up by being incredibly rude about gay people. If she's doing this she's immature, if not it just sounds like she's not a nice person. Either way probably worth letting the friendship go.

She doesn't sound like the right friend for you at this time in your life (or ever tbh).
Normally I'd say message her saying her opinions hurt you but I reckon you'd get a stupid message back like "well how was I supposed to know it would hurt you because you have refused to tell me what your going through".
I doubt she's even worth talking it through, tell her your going through alot in the next few months and you will catch up when you can...

Oh my gosh LemonLight. This must be upsetting for you but I hope you can detach yourself emotionally from your frien's stupid and unkind views. She sounds very extreme in her lack of empathy, and you had obviously assessed that very perceptively when you decided not to talk to her about this.

I'd find it hard to have a friendship with someone like that. But I guess that if you have put up with it for so long there must be other, positive, things that she brings? I guess it will be a question of working out whether her friendship is still, on balance, positive for you. If not, it doesn't seem worth having any kind of heart-to-heart about this. Too costly for you, and too much ofa chance that her shrivelled compassion won't hear you.

If you don’t want to be her friend any more - slow fade. You’re very busy. Doesn’t work for you.
if you still want to be friends - text her that those comments were very upsetting to you and you’re reevaluating the friendship. She might feel dreadful, apologise and have a big think on how she speaks about patients going forward.

Wow! What an absolute cow!

Ok she didn't know about your IVF but now you know what she thinks of the patients! Why bloody work there?

@ElFupacabra

"Arsegravy" - you cracked me up!!!

The freeze response is the lesser known part of the fight or flight response, in that moment you were thrust into shock at this attack on the most vulnerable part of your being.

I've had it when people say cruel, abelist things (use the word 'mong' etc) not realising I have a sibling with Downs. I am the fiestiest, most articulate person normally but when someone attacks such a vulnerable part of your identity it stings so badly that it is immobilising (and can cause a psychological throwback to past traumas eg being bullied aged 4 for having a 'spastic' sister).

I had a black colleague who described the same feeling when white people were having clumsy, throwaway conversations about the death of George Floyd. This is a highly successful, articulate woman who outside of work is also an activist - but the unguarded, unexpected racist comments people would make casually to day to day would floor her. It's a trauma response.

You had a trauma response.

Anyway, quite aside from all of that your friend sounds vile. Get rid.

Why are you friends with this person? What do you get from the friendship? She sounds absolutely awful.

Having attended serveral fertility clinics for tests and treatment, I have always thought they must be very depressing places to work, So much bad news, sad people and only a few success stories.
Even so your "Friend" sounds awful and very unproffessional. Imagine speaking so unkindly about people going through the worst experience of their lives. I hope she's a bit nicer to them in real life.
If I were you, I would tell her what you've said here and how upset you are with her. And I think I'd contact her manager and ask them to have a word with her about being a bit more empathic.
Good luck with your IVF.

This.

if she has a customer facing role I’d be tempted to tell her employer what she said too. It’s not fair on the women she see’s to have to deal with someone who regards them with such contempt.

I’d either ghost her. Or, tell her that you have recently gone through IVF and that her disgusting comments are therefore aimed at you. She’ll feel
about as small as an ant, and you’ll turn your back on a very toxic ‘friend’. Either way, cut her out of your life, she sounds like a trainwreck