To want DH to understand the mental load

[Bongbingboo1]

Background
We have 4 kids. 3 are teenagers and 1 5 year old. Both work full time with me working from home.

I'm feeling extremely overwhelmed at the moment and the plates are falling down and no longer spinning.

We moved house 6 months ago and I feel completely disorganised and the house is a mess as I haven't had the opportunity to actually organise anything.

Husband works long hours and he is away 2-3 nights a week. I do all the house admin/child admin etc. he literally works and then thinks about his own hobbies.

I am trying to get him to see that I am overwhelmed but he keeps saying I'm making choices. I gave him the example of DDs birthday next week and how it won't even occur to him to think about anything until I ask something of him. It's the end of term and there are a million things to think about for each day of school, again he said my choice. I get it's a choice to buy teachers a gift etc or arrange play dates and have birthday parties.

I said I need you to understand that they are not choices all the time and he responded by saying 'I call bull shit on your examples'.

I am talking myself down by thinking it will be easier in the holidays as I can ask the older kids to help out more and life will slow down a bit without the school run but it's not a solution to his attitude.

So my question is. Have you ever got you DH to see the mental load and take some of it on without the kids suffering/missing out etc? What works well in your homes to split the work?

I really struggled with the balance of household tasks and mental load after I went back to work after being a SAHM and still ended up with al the tasks I'd been doing before, even when DH cut his hours and had more time at home than I did.

I got a book called Fair Play by Eve Rodsky, which was cringily US self-help book in tone, but was life-changing in practice.

It basically involves going through a long list of just about everything needed to run a household and raise children, deciding what you can ditch from the list and then dividing up the list, agreeing on minimum standards for each tasks and then each taking on responsibility in total, including the mental load, for specific tasks. So now, I don't think at all about cooking dinner on Tuesday, or cleaning the bathroom, or anything to do with DS's sports team, because those are entirely his responsibility (as are plenty of other things). We implemented the system in January. Since then, I've got a significantly better job, done more fun and rewarding activities and made huge improvements to our home because I've had the capacity to do the stuff that is a nice extra but not vital right this moment. Both our lives have improved.

But if he doesn't go for a reasonable distribution of work and belittles your contributions, then I do agree that you'd probably be better off without him.

There is this one https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SqQgDwA0BNU

and https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZLgtm_TMBU

So what did he say when you pointed this out? Becuase it sounds to me like he just doesn't care.

I don't see how any of these suggestions will help frankly. He doesn't care about the children or the dog or with you.

Being disorganised is one thing but why is he being so rude and dismissive? Is he always like this??

Calls bullshit does he? Fucking charming! Guessing he listens to a lot of American podcasts on his long haul drives.

My first choice would to be fucking ignore his birthday from now on.

HE would have done it in the end if you'd kept on at him - he would have been the one frantically scouring shops on Christmas Eve - and you could have helped him by saying "well DH, I've bought child A 8 gifts, big one is a Radio Controlled car, so get something equivalent from the list you have. Child B is so excited to have X/Y/Z - can't wait to see their face tomorrow morning!!! See you later, I'll hep you wrap up the stuff you get" he would have found SOMETHING - and it would have been for HIM to explain what happened on the day

but you bailed him out...so he didn't have to suffer any consequences ... and he probably never had to do anything to sort Christmas presents for the kids ever again...

I would make a list of the things you do and then discuss who does what. But if he doesn’t think your child needs a birthday party then I don’t know what the hell to suggest. I guess you’ve been doing these things for years and he just doesn’t see them. But a child’s birthday is an obvious place to start, surely he realises there is stuff to think/plan/do?

OK - so presumably you mentioned this oversight to DH and asked him to sort it properly?

Or did you do what others have done on this post and bailed him out, by doing it yourself... ?

We fell into 'traditional' roles for a while, then I took a moment and refused to do any laundry or hoovering - at all. He soon picked up the hoover, and tbf I haven't since.
I now say to him things like 'DS1 needs new trainers will you order some today?' and leave it at that - it is now his responsibility and it's off my desk. Instead of micromanaging (which I did do) I let him make the choice and do the buying etc.

We do, like a PP, have regular chats too - Thursday evening we discuss at dinner everyone's plans for the weekend, I will say - out loud - that I've got too much going on and could he do x y z, but he too does the same - we both work FT but he's also studying so will ask me to take on things too. we are equal partners, and treat each other as such.

its easy, if his child doesn't need a party, then he can be the one to explain to his child why they can't have a party. Nor does DH need any kind of acknowledgement for his birthday either.

I can survive for an awful long time on toast. And there's no takeaways around here.

I'm a rubbish delegator because it's quicker and easier to do things myself.

DH does his own birthday present buying and the like.

I have never really understood the mental load thing because I just get on with things and don't feel the grind of "life admin" that so many people on here seem to feel (except when things break and I have to try to find a tradesperson to fix it - that is a MASSIVE chore). Buying a birthday present is not a chore (unless you don't know what to get, and then it is). But then we only have one child and no pets so that reduces the "workload" by a lot.

However I did think of an example that has annoyed me over the years. I would do the grocery shopping online but DH doesn't like it as he wants to choose stuff, so he goes and does it in person. Fine. But he will ask me at breakfast what we want to eat that evening. Why do I need to decide that early. Because he's going to do the shopping. Fine. But he could just say "I'll get a chicken for dinner tonight, is that ok" and get it rather than making me think about it. It's a bit of a silly example but it does annoy me!

He has low standards and is selfish. I'm not sure that is fixable.

DH has different standards to me. Although he is right mine are too weird high. I made sugar glass and got dry ice for DD's Frozen party. It was awesome but massively too much. When I'm doing that, DH is doing the things he thinks are important, like cleaning the house and doing the washing.

Does yours do ANY housework? Because he won't ever think a teacher present is important but presumably he understands not dying of dysentery in a pile of filth.

Honestly, he doesn't sound like he's ever going t take on much of the mental load. You have 3 teenagers - he must have been like this for more than a decade. That's one hell of a habit, and what would be his motivation for taking on a life-changing level of inconvenience?

You could leave him. I imagine you probably won't, or you would have done it years ago. My DH admittedly is also shit at the mental load.

When you can, delegate to him as much as possible. But yes, that means things won't be done to your standard. Even if he really tries, he hasn't had the practice you have had, and he probably won't try all that hard - he'll expect you to rescue him if he messed up, or he'll do it deliberately badly so you don't give him responsibility again. That's tough to take as the consequences will fall on your children and you won't like that....

Otherwise you just accept that he's crap. Minimise your workload by ditching things that won't affect you/your children. Don't get presents/cards for his family EVER. Don't pick up dry cleaning/do ironing/whatever. This is not to punish him, just that you need to have some time to prioritise yourself which means g needs to look after himself.

As your children get older, make sure they are taking responsibility and aren't picking up on his attitude that "mum sorts these things out". Strict rules for laundry/dishwashing. Rota of chores - linked to pocket money/treats/whatever.

The concept of mental load is an interesting one. Sometimes I am unsure whether women really want to shed this; because they are emotionally invested in making all these things happen in a way that many men often are not. Men often look on bewildered from the side-lines at the mass of activities/ parties/play dates etc. as these things might not occur to them as being necessary. Once the pattern is set for women to carry all these things then often it is hard to get back from there - if the OH is persuaded to engage with all this, then the mother looks on exasperated because he is not doing it as expertly as she would and because she is also feeling resentful that he did not think of it in the first place!

In a way we need to go back a stage to when a child is expected; to talk about what the needs and actions might be once there is a child here; to be specific .... there will be responsibilities for obvious practical stuff - feeding etc., but also there will be a need to ensure the child gets to school and is picked up, that he/she is able to go on play dates and have parties. If the OH is aware that this is part of the package from the start, he is more likely to step up.

I honestly think that men often do not think of these "extra" responsibilities - that it all genuinely never occurs to them. We have to feed in the idea!

My late OH was wonderful with the children and joined in and helped with everything that needed doing, but none of it would have been initiated by him, or even have occurred to him. Does that make him a bad person? I do not know. I used to feel that in a sense these things were happening by my choice and I was happy that he went along with it all and happily pulled his weight. I was therefore happy to cut him a bit of slack and not criticise him.

However I do think the OP's OH is being rude and unpleasant to her on the subject, and I would not have stood for that.

As your children get older, make sure they are taking responsibility and aren't picking up on his attitude that "mum sorts these things out". Strict rules for laundry/dishwashing. Rota of chores - linked to pocket money/treats/whatever.

I agree with everything except the last line. I don't link chores to money because no one gets paid for housework. It's the cost of living in a happy, well run home. My message to the teenagers is 'chores so you don't end up being the housemate everyone hates'.

Take him up on his suggestion, don't do anything

When he comes home from this trip, or a work trip he can do his own washing, don't food shop (just enough for you and the dc), tell him he's responsible for his car tax/insurance, add to that items he likes to have etc.

Sadly, I think the reality is that in many relationships (yes, not all), the mental load will never be shared because one partner (usually the woman) will always be there to pick up the slack. Entitlement is one of the hardest ‘habits’ to get rid of and I’ve seen so many relationships devolve into one partner (usually the woman) mothering her partner because her partner essentially behaves like an overgrown teen.

He sounds shit. You are probably best of splitting so he has no choice but to actually do things on his days with the kids

"Just don't do it" - so he is happy for dog to go without vaccinations, kids birthdays not to be celebrated, not have hobbies etc.

Feel like slapping him and he is not even my husband.

I’m wondering whether we can change the roles whilst women spend the most time at home with children? Are we ingraining the stereotypes into the psyche of the next generation by women staying at home? At what age are roles instinctively ingrained/learned and therefore copied by the next generation?

It was a risk I wasn't willing to take. He probably would have got SOMETHING.....but I've been on the receiving end of a last minute desperation shop on Christmas eve and the presents bear little resemblance to anything I wanted or asked for! And I didn't want that for DS (he was about 8 or 9)
I still try and get him involved but I buy the main presents that are important to get a particular thing (he wouldn't think ahead to try and get on black friday) I start pestering reminding him earlier in December and we look at the diary and agree a day to go shopping (not Christmas eve)

My DP sent me that - recognises it, thinks it's funny, but doesn't make a damn bit of difference to what he actually does.

And in answer to your question, no, I've not yet cracked this. I don't know if it even can be achieved once the habits are formed - would love to hear of anyone who's managed it.

I suggested a spreadsheet that outlines all the hours each of us spends working, doing childcare, chores and free time, so he could see the imbalance in a nicely colour-coded document and find ways to fix it but apparently I need to find time to create this spreadsheet. So it hasn't been done yet. Because I don't have any free time (except occasional moaning on MN I guess 😖).

His reply to everything is well just don’t do it then.

The answer to this is to decide to stop doing things that don't affect the DC - so stop doing his laundry. If he complains say it was his choice not to do it. DOn't buy beer/snacks for him as part of the weekly shop. ALso sit down and tell him that you have decided to stop doing the finances/insurance car stuff - its now upto him and he can decide if it is in fact bullshit to bother about whether the mortgage is paid etc. I'd also point out that if you are exhausted and resentful you will be both too tired and too turned off for any private activity...

Well he sounds lazy and selfish and completely incompatible with me. What choices can you make? I’d make the conscious choice to do nothing for him c and to uninvite him from all holidays -‘ I’m making the choice to organise it as you tell me, but that choice is not made in a vacuum , it is made in the context of having a very lazy selfish husband who never organised the holidays, so I’m also making the choice to uninvite you.’
what do the dc do re activities? I’d consider telling them that Dh was in charge from now on, but they’d have to make sure he organised everything or he’d forget, but phone him anytime - in the morning before school even if he’s away, don’t worry about it, call him. And I’d hope they’d nag the absolute living daylights out of him. Since id have long since fallen out of love with him, I’d also lose /break things he cared about. Trying to sort house? Quick way - bin everything on the shelf of his things, and you have an empty shelf to put things on. He will understand when you say you told me the stress of not having sorted the house was because of my own choices- I’m making new ones. I ditched all your stuff and hey presto, I had room to unpack a whole box in 15 minutes. I’m making better choices like you told me to.’
i think he’s just an asshole tbh.