To be raging - school holiday camp

[peoniesandpumpkins]

Booked my DC into the holiday camp at our local tennis club. They’ve just turned the age that you can go from but it’s just 3.5 hrs (they do pre school 2 days 9-3 and 3 days 9-1:30 so used to longer days etc.) It’s not all tennis, lots of games.

They have absolutely loved it. Been twice now. My mum picked up last week (she knows a lot of the coaching team) and they mentioned he’d been great, my mum asked about the toilet and they mentioned ‘oh yes they know where the toilet is’ ‘jokingly’ apparently. We took that to mean they’d been going quite a lot, but at least not peed themselves!! Husband picked up on Mon, great time again. Due to go tomorrow, really excited!

Logged onto work email (not personal) tonight to see an email from organiser sent at 8:43PM saying ‘sorry but don’t think peonies child is really ready for 3.5 hrs of tennis (it’s not 3.5 hrs of tennis) they are more interested in going to the toilet and this impacts on the coaching team’

Honestly, I do know that they can be a little bugger for wanting to go off to loo if they think they can go have a nosey/explore and get away with it. I apologised said as much but, said they love it and that messaging at 8:40 odd at night (to my work email (wouldn’t have seen it ordinarily) the night before was really not great, would they please let me have a chat, let them come tomorrow (really left me in the f’ing lurch) and if more of same then I understand.

They emailed back to say it’s a no as a member of staff has to take them to the toilet each time. I am confused about this as they normally have to be told to go toilet (unless opportunity for boggling - which they wouldn’t get if they have to go with an adult), so I’m like well yes I understand that and that is annoying but I am telling you that I am 98% certain that will stop once I’ve had a word and if it doesn’t then yes I’m in agreement. I just think it’s so shitty not to give them a last chance.

Also I don’t think it’s that they don’t want to have take them to the toilet full stop, as there are 2 children doing it who aren’t quite 5 (one not until the new year) who have been allowed as they have older siblings so surely if it’s an age thing they are having to take them to the loo when they need to go?!? DC quite capable of going on own physically iykwim. Can understand they need to be supervised.

If it was that they weren’t coping/joining in or didn’t have the motor ability then I understand but why not mention that then.

All just seems rather mean not to let us have a chat and give them another chance. Not to mention bloody unprofessional, she could have told me on Monday night or Tuesday night!

The way they have communicated this is rubbish.

They shouldn't be taking children that age if they can't cope with normal behaviour.

I am not surprised you are cross.

Am laughing at this - ‘knew better than the instructors’. Well yes, so your children said. We are always immensely relieved on our camps when the arrogant, cocky, know better than everyone children do not return too.

Back to the OP though - it is really poor form to let you know the night before. We run holiday camps and accept children from the September before they start Reception. We are very, very well staffed for this but even then a staff member having to constantly take a child to the toilet is too much - it is not one on one care and it is (even mildly) detrimental to the other children’s camp experience. Most of our 4/5 year olds do not constantly ask to go to the toilet and those that do are usually seeking reassurance, too young to properly enjoy camp. We would not have emailed you the night before, we would have put up with it as you’d booked but you would have been told/we would have been ‘full’ next time you requested a place.

Maybe they feel they have to wait for him to get back before starting the next activity, and that causes delays?

Also he’s gutted, currently pleading with DH 🥺.

Any chance he's been running off to the toilet, just disappearing, causing anxiety among the staff? That could be a huge liability or safety issue if they feel he's a runner. I presume their T and Cs say they can terminate at any time, for whatever reason they see fit?

You've paid for today, haven't you?
Have they issued a refund?

If not, I would take him.

Sure it's not the actual toilet issue, but the fact he's constantly wandering off/causing interruptions, which in turn affects the class for everyone else. Probably just a focus issue - some kids at that age can concentrate on the class, others can't.

@IScreamAtMichaelangelos the email back said ‘sorry it’s a no as a staff member has to take him to the toilet each time.’

Do they mean, "A staff member has to take him to the toilet each time (and he's not respecting that, running off to the toilet on his own)"?

OP, I completely understand how awful this was for you. I work full time and managing holidays is a nightmare. Emailing your work address and with such a short notice was awful.

however, I agree with the posters pointing out that this is an activity based camp. There will be many children who come just for the tennis - and get cross with messing about which takes time from them. Is your DC running away on his own to use the toilet (as he says he is going on his own and they say he needs to be accompanied)?

regardless, it sounds like they cannot accommodate his behaviour. My oldest is a coach (age 14) and she would probably refuse to take on a child who wasn’t interested in the sport, needed constant toilet breaks and potentially disappeared to the toilet. She volunteers (so not paid) to do the club a favour and she would be completely out of her depth with this. She is great with older kids though (year 2-4).

with regards to the age, I also think it may be a sibling consideration. My youngest went with her older siblings at that age - and they were stricter than any teacher. They would not have let her get away with any stunt like this.

It's a hard lesson for a little boy but, if you don't try to hard to get between him and the natural consequences of his behaviour, he could really learn from this. Sooner or later knowing that you can push things too far and there isn't always "one more chance " is quite powerful.

@DisquietintheRanks it's a bit unfair if his 'behaviour' is just natural curiosity that nobody has been aware of to have the opportunity to discourage

It seems very unlikely they haven't explained to him that he can't come if x doesn't stop.

@TheBlinkOfAnEye considering they have lied about staff assisting him I wouldn't be surprised if they hadnt. A child that age who can communicate well is likely to have told his parents if he felt like he had been told off

Either a staff member has had to be taking him to the toilet multiple times in a 3.5hr session (and I can understand them not feeling able to say "no/wait" when a small child asks for the toilet as if they wet themselves then the parents would undoubtedly be more furious), or your child is telling the truth and they are taking themselves, but again multiple times in a very short session. You admit that your child is known to do this.

Either way, it seems to be causing disruption to the lesson (even if the child takes themselves, it means that there are teams with uneven numbers, or if they pair up, that the child paired with your child gets less time to do the activity as their partner keeps going to the loo).

I'd just suck it up. Ideally, they should have mentioned something, although the "knows where the toilet is" comment might have been a clue. Even at 5, your child is old enough to understand that if they behave in a certain way it means that they lose out on something nice.

Op it sounds like the coaches are young, I've come across a sports coach still in school and someone has mentioned their 14yo is a coach.

But they may have been told kids need chaperoned and he's been running off. It could be it's not until older more responsible staff have been told later they've said no that cannot be happening.

I wonder if he went initially on his own, but then spent so long that a member of staff came to find him each time?
So in his mind he went on his own, and in their mind, a member of staff was as lost each time.

I didn't think it was clear that he required staff to assist him but he's been taking himself alone, or not. In any case, as harsh as it is, so much is run around liability control these days. I suspect that is the reason for the abrupt termination. If he hasn't run off or done something else significant and OP feels they aren't being honest with her, is that someone you'd want watching your child anyway?

I think the club have not managed this professionally. They have chosen the age limits so they must have an idea what a typical 5 year old behaviour is. On the first day did anyone speak to your child about this? You might need to check. Maybe they thought OK it's day 1, they're young and a bit nervous, we'll give them the benefit of the doubt. When it didn't improve on Tuesday, they concluded they were unsuitable.
That all sounds perfectly reasonable provided it was communicated properly, so staff have a word with your child and email you.
I'm a bit confused about the work email thing. Presumably you gave them that email at some stage so they've used it. I doubt someone has 'looked you up'.
Ultimately they've made their decision (which seems reasonable) and you need to accept it. Still, the communication wasn't great but they might consider these things when accepting young children next time.

Fair point @TheBlinkOfAnEye. Nobody wants someone caring for their child who sees them as an inconvenience.

Poor behaviour from the club; I too would be very annoyed. Your husband should have been spoken to when he picked your little boy up last session. To email you at 8.43pm to say he can’t attend the following day is unacceptable and unprofessional.

I read most of the comments but this one stood out. You were so worried he’d wet himself, you made it clear he had to use the facilities more often. You screwed your child out of an enjoyable experience because of your own insecurities.

YABU and need to step back. Don’t force your worries on your child who then takes it to the extreme of constant toilet breaks.

Maybe they find him a safeguarding risk - can’t constantly take him to the toilet, but constantly having to find out why he hasn’t come back from it, yet, so the people running it have been told he now has to be accompanied there and back from now on, and they are unable to accommodate this. I think maybe your mother failed to pass a message on adequately. If you knew your ds was prone to “trying it on,” you were strangely reticent about finding out what they really meant by him knowing where the toilet is - they obviously made it clear enough this was outside the nom that your mother passed that comment on to you. That said, I think they have handled it badly, but they have the majority of children to consider, and maybe it is annoying them and disrupting their tennis/their parents are complaining?

If going to the loo is more interesting than his activity he isn't enjoying it quite as much as he says he is. I used to use going to the loo as an excuse to get out of boring activities quite often. (I actually still do) But only ever when I was bored. If I was interested in what was going on I could hold on for hours!

it sounds like they are right - he may well be enjoying moments of this camp a great deal but he doesn't yet have the attention span to focus for long periods at a time.

OP I feel for you and your 5yo and think they’ve handled this really poorly.

They’re clearly not set up to manage younger DC and should have set an older age level. But having booked him onto the course I think they should have been able to at least give you a few days’ notice.