To be raging - school holiday camp

[peoniesandpumpkins]

Booked my DC into the holiday camp at our local tennis club. They’ve just turned the age that you can go from but it’s just 3.5 hrs (they do pre school 2 days 9-3 and 3 days 9-1:30 so used to longer days etc.) It’s not all tennis, lots of games.

They have absolutely loved it. Been twice now. My mum picked up last week (she knows a lot of the coaching team) and they mentioned he’d been great, my mum asked about the toilet and they mentioned ‘oh yes they know where the toilet is’ ‘jokingly’ apparently. We took that to mean they’d been going quite a lot, but at least not peed themselves!! Husband picked up on Mon, great time again. Due to go tomorrow, really excited!

Logged onto work email (not personal) tonight to see an email from organiser sent at 8:43PM saying ‘sorry but don’t think peonies child is really ready for 3.5 hrs of tennis (it’s not 3.5 hrs of tennis) they are more interested in going to the toilet and this impacts on the coaching team’

Honestly, I do know that they can be a little bugger for wanting to go off to loo if they think they can go have a nosey/explore and get away with it. I apologised said as much but, said they love it and that messaging at 8:40 odd at night (to my work email (wouldn’t have seen it ordinarily) the night before was really not great, would they please let me have a chat, let them come tomorrow (really left me in the f’ing lurch) and if more of same then I understand.

They emailed back to say it’s a no as a member of staff has to take them to the toilet each time. I am confused about this as they normally have to be told to go toilet (unless opportunity for boggling - which they wouldn’t get if they have to go with an adult), so I’m like well yes I understand that and that is annoying but I am telling you that I am 98% certain that will stop once I’ve had a word and if it doesn’t then yes I’m in agreement. I just think it’s so shitty not to give them a last chance.

Also I don’t think it’s that they don’t want to have take them to the toilet full stop, as there are 2 children doing it who aren’t quite 5 (one not until the new year) who have been allowed as they have older siblings so surely if it’s an age thing they are having to take them to the loo when they need to go?!? DC quite capable of going on own physically iykwim. Can understand they need to be supervised.

If it was that they weren’t coping/joining in or didn’t have the motor ability then I understand but why not mention that then.

All just seems rather mean not to let us have a chat and give them another chance. Not to mention bloody unprofessional, she could have told me on Monday night or Tuesday night!

*wont be able to go = won’t be able to go to the tennis club

If it's unmanagable then they shouldn't accept 5 year olds. You can't accept 5 year old and then think that 5 is too young to attend.

Although lots of 5yr old would be more than capable....and some absolutely not.
You can't set an age limit at 8 and then accept mature 5yr old....you can set an age limit and 5 and then refuse kids that aren't suited.

Why would they change the age limit because one 5 year old isn't ready to participate? I'd assume that other 5 year olds are.

You say he does this all the time because he's nosy. Well let this be a lesson to learn and hopefully he'll grow up a bit.

Reasonable to say no, timing poor and should have been earlier.

Holiday clubs vary a lot in terms of quality and how well trained the staff are. It's nothing like pre-school.

We have had a really wide variety over the years, including the football camp where the 'coach' (probably a teenager) took the piss out of my kids for having what he called 'baby seats' with them (they were booster seats, as they were getting a lift home with a friend). Every day when they arrived, 'got your baby seats?'. That really pissed them off. The bushcraft camp, where the kids knew better how to do most of the activities than the leader did. The craft session where the leader got out the scissors and glue for origami and my precocious DD who was about 6 pipes up that she thinks origami is just folding 😂.

Equally there have been some good camps over the years, but even they change hands or your child grows out of them. I had to find 2-3 weeks a year and they never wanted to do the same thing for all three weeks. Just put this one down to experience and try not to be upset that it didn't work out. It's on their lack of experience dealing with younger children, not on you. I do think it's appalling that they emailed late at night though.

Very unprofessional to email you for a start, why not talk to you on the phone, much earlier in the day, and giving such short notice is not fair, they must know you’re all working parents. That said a tennis club does sound like it’s more suited to older children, but if they allow his age then it’s a bit unfair just chucking him out. I think he should be given another chance, maybe there’s more to it, how’s his behaviour in general?

It's possible that this goes beyond the toileting. His behaviour may be creating a safety or liability issue of the nature that they have felt the need to terminate immediately. It's rough for you but they have a duty of care. I'm sure their terms and conditions allow them to do this if necessary. Your son may just not be developmentally ready for this yet.

Because, as an organisation, they evidently lack the patience and skills to teach young children. This child's behaviour doesn't sound massively abnormal for his age, and the fact that they didn't give his mother a chance to speak to the child and try to improve his behaviour first is pretty poor.

Telling you at such short notice and with no warning is very poor.

However it sounds as if your DC is buggering around, not focusing, finding reasons to wander off...regardless of age it isn't the right place for him.

OP I guess what a PP meant about a proper holiday club is a club that is there specifically to provide childcare rather than sports coaching.

I’ve used ‘proper’ holiday care for when I needed a full day to work and I’ve used 1/2/3 hour sports holiday clubs for when my kids want to improve or try out a particular sport. Staff at the latter are not generally childcare experts, they kind of expect the kids to just get on with it to a certain extent. I think I would’ve usually sat and watched when my child was 5 or at least popped in and out. Not sure if you’re in Scotland but most clubs around here will only take 5 year olds if they’ve already done their P1 year.

All that said they’ve handled it badly.

The short notice is really unfair, but who knows what was going on behind the scenes, maybe one of the coaches was threatening to quit if they had to keep taking your child to the toilet?You keep saying he likes to have a nosy around, but surely the toilet can’t have been that interesting for him to want a nosy several times a session - that sounds like quite odd behaviour even for a five year old. Sounds like he needs to be in a more general childcare setting rather than a specialist sports camp where the staff just want to get on and coach.

I'm sorry you're in the annoying spot of when a child is at term time pre/prep school but not old enough for proper holiday provision. Around here, the holiday provision is "from end of reception year" in order to ensure the kids have had a year of being sensible, listening and behaving in a school environment. Obviously your DS just isn't capable of that level of concentration yet.

It sounds like he liked the games but not the tennis itself. And the coaches probably recognise that he's not interested either. As a parent of older children now, I'd be annoyed if another child took attention from the purpose of the provision i.e. tennis coaching. Maybe they have had complaints?

I think you just suck it up, don't send him in and keep him at home. You'll just have to juggle for a few days. Everyone saying send him in....that's a truly truly terrible idea.

Often private nurseries will allow a maximum of 20 days which can help cover a full day. If you only have to work 3 hours then I'd catch up tonight.

Completely unprofessional on their part. Plus they have let you down, at the last minute. Maybe a club with more varied activities or a childminder would be better for a young child?

@goodkidsmaadhouse they are all focused around a sport/certain set of activities though 🤷‍♀️. Well here, can’t see anything that specifies childcare, all just say they are holiday clubs.

This.

When I first started running my own business (swimming crash courses in re holidays) I started off as age 4. Cue parents whose kids aren't remotely ready to listen in a group swimming class enrolling them on their fourth birthday. It's dangerous. (Don't even get me started on the 3 year olds at the company I work for - dangerous money making) . I changed it very quickly to 5 with a very clear note to please consider if your children are ready.

I expect the outcome of this is that they will move the age higher next time.

Oooh - I've just thought of something I do op, so just tread carefully - because I have more demand than places, I have a (secret) banned list (can be due to parents or their dc) and they get a 'sorry, I'm fully booked' .

I'm really surprised they didn't talk to your child about not doing it themselves? I would have thought that was their first thing to do. Not just take him hundreds of times, without a word, then come to you to ban him with no time left. Doesn't seem fair to not give either you or him a warning first.

@Luana1 yes that’s what I said up thread normally when he’s worked out he has to be supervised it looses its appeal. And it doesn’t happen all time….never at preschool. And yes who knows….that’s why it’s always good and professional to let parents actually know??

So what will you do?
I’d maybe take him and ask them to give him another chance.

Op why didn't you stick with his usual nursery for this summer? Or is that term time only, what did you do with him last summer?

The club may have said 5 thinking most kids at the end of P1 will be 5. But there may well be a difference in maturity between a February 5 year old with a year of school behind them and a March 5 year old just out of nursery.

It's wrong of them not to mention the issue at pickup. But being a tennis club the toilets are in probably the club house with bar and potentially other random adults hence the kids need chaperoned.

The coaches may also be quite young, one of my kids had an amazing sports coach who was still in school, I knew he was young but until he mentioned his 6th year leavers holiday I didn't realise he was that young!

They sound really unprofessional and ill-equipped to deal with normal 5 year old behaviour.
It's really poor that they haven't spoken to you to try to resolve this first, that they emailed late at night with minimal notice, and that they didn't mention this earlier.
I'd be raging too.

this is what happens when parents see an activity camp as childcare, they put in children who cannot manage the activity for the length of the camp and who end up being a PITA and disrupting it for the children who have a genuine interest in the activity and who want to get on with it. Nothing worse than having to go back and forth escorting the same child to the toilet over and over when it’s clear that they are just trying to get out of participating, or having a child endlessly mithering and interrupting the other children.
If it’s childcare you need, put them in childcare, don’t fob them off onto an activity provider who really wants to deliver a fun filled camp for children with an interest in the activity, not entertain bored children who have no interest whatsoever and who would rather be elsewhere. If your child isn’t ready for something structured then accept that a 45 min - 1 hr slot is better for both them and the adult running the activity than 3 hrs +. Good on this camp leader for not accepting a child who isn’t ready for the session, though I do think emailing right at the last minute was very wrong.

So gets weirder, we’ve just spoken to DC….he’s been going on his own apparently. We asked ‘which coach takes you to the toilet’ and he said ‘no one, I go on my own’ he was quite proud of this 🤦‍♀️.

100% believe him….this is why he’s going repeatedly. I was finding it hard to believe he’d be bothered if he was supervised.

Why lie though!

Very odd.