To stop all extra activities due to attitude in 9yo?

[AttitudeOnHer]

Always been the same so it’s not end of year burnout or anything.

DD is 9, just finishing Yr4 but has SN.

The attitude is appalling. Refusing to tidy up the mess she made with her toys and crafts, refusing to take plate into the kitchen after eating, refusing to get a drink or demanding it of me.

Taking toys or sweets or desert away doesn’t work because she walks down the road to ExH where she gets all these things and I can’t stop her seeing her dad. Throwing them in the bin means she asks ExH to replace them which he does.

Shouting at her results in her melting down and I end up hit, kicked and scratched at. Setting a timer and telling her to do as much as she can in that time results in her turning the timer over every time it gets half way or cancelling the timer on Alexa. If I do a timer on my phone she doesn’t even listen to it. Praise results in her going “I did a good job and now deserve a rest” after she’s picked up literally one thing or she’ll grumble and tell me she’s going to dads house as she doesn’t have to tidy up there.

My only leeway is her extracurricular activities – I’d keep swimming as she needs to learn to swim but she’s chosen a holiday club based on her current obsession and I can always book her into the normal one where none of her friends are going (current obsession is Musical Theatre and she’s booked onto a 4 week holiday course she’s very excited – it’s more expensive than the normal none theme based holiday club where she’d do craft etc). I can stop her going on the none compulsory residential in Year 5 – all other trips are compulsory and educational so I’d keep those but the residential is a completely optional 2 night trip, the Year 6 4 nights is also optional. I can stop paying for Scouts in September.

But then I get screamed at and told I can’t cancel them. ExH refuses to pay for them so she won’t get them back. But I feel guilty because they help her so much, in terms of how she feels about herself. But I think it’s my only thing I can do. All I want is for her to tidy up or take her plate out or make herself a drink, nothing that she’s incapable of.

She's always been like this, since me and ExH split when she was toddler, she's always got her own way at dads and not forced to do anything she doesn't want to do. School try and foster her independence to, but she also shuts down there, I don't think doing it for her is the way to go but I have no way of showing her this.

AIBU to cancel her stuff?

@NuffSaidSam She shrugs and says dad doesn't make her do it so she doesn't see why she should have to or it's not her job to keep my home clean as I'm the adult thats my job.

This sounds a lot like she's parroting something her dad or grandparents have said. I think you have a very hard battle on your hands as they seem to undermining you on all fronts.

Can you tell her dad that if he keeps letting her in and giving her whatever he wants ,then he has to keep her for the night. You won't answer the door when he comes to drop her back. He can deal with her then.

You also need to change the narrative. She's not doing stuff to help you out, she's doing it to build independence and to learn to look after herself. It's for her own sake and wellbeing. There's probably a better way to word it but you need to repeat this until it sinks in. She'll be going on residential in two years, no one will be running around after her getting her drinks and what not.

Have you tried the joint approach? You tidy up together, to music or other background noise (because it's boring) . It doesn't matter if you do most of it, as long as she joins in it's a result that you can build on it. Then once it's done just acknowledge it with a simple thank you and move on to the next thing. No massive fuss .

If she goes next door for a drink/treat just remind her it was a lot more effort actually leaving the house and going there than getting the actual drink and leave it at that.

I saw a good tip in a book recently:

First we do it for you
Then we do it with you
Then we watch you do it
Then you do it on your own

OK so your DH couldn't maintain a relationship, isn't very grown up about co-parenting, took longer than usual to be independent and isn't really now...

The only real solution I can see is to move a bit further away!

If your DD is autistic OP (and I see that you haven’t responded to any questions about her SEN and how it affects her so I am making an assumption) there is a Facebook page called Parents of Autistic Girls UK, that would be a really good place for you to start, it’s a very active group, and separated parents/different rules etc have been discussed on there previously.

Same way as most people stop their nine year olds leaving their house unaccompanied any time they like. And no it doesn’t involve any tying to a chair. Just a bit of discipline and parental authority.

I just wanted to say i really feel for you OP. Her Dad is undermining you and making it harder.

I dont think cancelling the holiday club will help in anyway though as I dont think it will change her behaviour.

Ot looks like you've tried timers, reward charts and routines. My only suggestion left is 'social stories' but not in the autism stick diagram way. Just see if you can find some tv shows, you tubers etc where the kids do chores and see if you can go to a friends house where the kids pit plates awat and try and normalise it as someything lots of kids do.

I also think doing with is a very useful tactic.

Exactly this. I have a 9 year old and I can’t even imagine her leaving the house on her own without permission. And I’ve never had to tie her to a chair to stop her… she just knows that she doesn’t do things without permission.

Haven’t rtft but she’s 9, she has SN.
The onus is on you to find strategies that help her to do things you ask of her, perhaps look at The PDA society website, or read The Explosive Child by Ross Greene.

You may be frustrated with you ex, but long term you need to find ways to get the best out of your dd that work with her SN and don’t push her to meltdown, which will lead to self esteem issues.

She should absolutely go to the arranged activities. It doesn’t sound like she’s deliberately being naughty, she’s struggling with the demands you’re putting on her.

You need to change your parenting to suit her.
If you can’t she may end up voting with her feet and going to her dad’s more often. (A friend lost her autistic son that way - she tried to mould him into a person that would live in the real world - in doing so the son reached 16 and just felt bullied and traumatised by her inability to be more flexible and respectful of his needs, so walked to his father and never looked back).
There’s a balance to be had. I think you need to try to meet her needs better.

The issue of her tidiness seems less important than finding a way for the two of you to connect and improve your relationship.

So I wouldn't deliberately make her miserable for the summer.

Rather than punishing her by taking things away, can you offer a reward for doing things? The reward can be based on time rather than money - doing an activity she likes together works well.

My son would leave the house at 9 - people here are not understanding how autism (and other SN) can present themselves.
For some children normal discipline makes things far worse.
On a very few occasions ds would run out because he was so overwhelmed. If we locked him in he’d lash out at anything/anyone in his way, once breaking a car window (ours, luckily!).

Parenting norms fly out of the window for some children. Doesn’t mean you don’t do your best to find a way that works for them though - that’s good parenting. Continuing with strategies (that don’t work) because MN tells you so is ridiculously short sighted. Do the best for your child.

Your DD isn’t the problem, your exH is. Don’t punish her because your exH is a dick - you’ll just push her further and further away from you which seems to be what he’s trying to achieve. Sounds like most of the behaviour is driven by him and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s reinforcing it when she turns up at his house. Keep going with boundaries and love.

Yabu. Cancelling them won't make the blindest bit of difference. And will probably make things worse. Been there, done that.
My DD attacked me for years so I know how crap things can be.

I would talk to her dad and let him know he has two choices, support you in raising her and guiding her behaviour. Or taking her on full time. Let him know if he is happy for her to act a particular way then he can live with the consequences. I would follow through with the threat.

Theres really only two ways to stop it

• physically restraining or locking in or
• psychological restraining by using fear and intimidation.

I personally think that it would be a huge mistake to squash the one bit of precocious independence this child is showing and doing. Her dad is literally a few doors away, there’s nothing wrong imho in her feeling welcome enough to just go over to his. Squashing independence is going to make it that much harder to foster independence in terms of tidying up and self sufficiency in getting drinks/snacks. It will confuse an autistic child.

You talk like she’s 19 not 9.

There are some really good tips here OP. I'm not separated from DH but there's a similar dynamic here. I'm reading with fingers crossed.

I'd be incredibly tempted to lock up the house when she leaves and go out myself, and txt your ex to tell him you've done that. If he allows her to just wander over to his to avoid repercussions for bad behaviour at yours then he can deal with her for the night.

The obvious solution would be a lock that she can't open by using a chair. Like one only you have a key to. Get a mortice lock fitted. Same with the windows. You can get restrictors to stop them opening enough to climb out. I hate to say this but you have been given lots of suggestions and you do seem to be looking for reasons why you can't do simple measures rather than focusing on what you can do. As I said before, you're almost behaving like you are the helpless child and she's the adult. The whole dynamic is all wrong here. You're letting a child control you. It's also unlikely that you absolutely can't get another private rental, there are always cheaper private lets available. It might not be what you want or the location you want but it will get you further away from her father, which is clearly what you need. Otherwise you just stay trapped in this endless cycle forever.

Please answer the question that people are asking.

How does her Special Needs affect her.

Without this answer, it's almost impossible to make sensible suggestions as different SN require different strategies.

*Aprilx · Today 07:24

Same way as most people stop their nine year olds leaving their house unaccompanied any time they like. And no it doesn’t involve any tying to a chair. Just a bit of discipline and parental authority*

My ASD Dd ran out into -6 degrees. It was horrific. She only had a t shirt on. ND sometimes need to ‘bolt’

You can’t always stop them. We did however keep the door locked in very cold weather after that.

My DS has SN as well, and has displayed the behaviours you describe in the past. Recently I've been following Empowering parents, and I've found it to be extremely helpful. It's a bit American, but things have been much better, and I've felt more confident dealing with situations with my son every day. You can Google empowering parents Alternative response. It's an alternative to shouting etc.

She obviously has the understanding that she gets what she wants at dads so she can harness that to not help at home. Obviously speaking to dad to find a way forward would be best. But also, at 9 refusing to do anything absolutely should incur punishment, there is some level of personal responsibility she needs to take.
Climbing out of the window to escape, shouting at you etc is NOT acceptable. She's old enough to know that. Having ADHD doesn't negate that.

How long do you intend this behaviour to continue?
how far away does her father live…I have no experience of SEN children but maybe you & her father should be singing from the same hymn sheet.

Can you elaborate on her SN?

I'd say that you need to focus on rebuilding a new path of talking. Spend time quietly, no white noise from tv etc, make her breakfast, take it to her and say, 'I'd love to help you with sorting your room/schoolwork/dishes.....' then tell her in 1 hour your going to get started together. Then SHOW HER how to methodically tidy/complete task/wash dishes...... Get a post it pad, write a few steps you did of the process (or draw little picture) on the post it. Leave them somewhere helpful, in a diary, on a paper calendar, on fridge etc. Constant fighting is so draining, my son was fucking awful!! He had ADD and difficulties with executive function so could not plan, carry out a plan, organise, think ahead. It was like living beside an active slum. Depressing. What helped him was me stopping shouting about it and physically showing him what to do for basic tasks, lots of micro compliments to him and it greatly helped. I have to frame everything differently now to present my demands as a positive for him,"I can't wait to get a burger after we've sorted your room today... See if you can find the post it's and get started, I'll help finish".

If you don't have the kind of 9 year old that would let herself out without asking, your comments aren't likely to be very helpful are they?!