To think some people on here can be a bit naive with regard to ‘the village’?

[Buildyourvillage]

I see it quite a lot on here, that if you need sudden childcare either because of an emergency or last minute change of plans, you should have a village to call on.

I found out I was expecting my (planned!) baby a couple of weeks after the first lockdown was announced, but I was still determined to be as sociable as possible. My own parents died before I turned 30, so I didn’t have them as support, but we had DHs parents although they live about an hour and a half away.

We did the NCT course and we were really lucky as everyone in our group hit it off and I know not everyone does. However, we’re a little widespread geographically and most significantly, out of six of us, four went back to work FT: two straightaway, two initially went back PT but then got different FT jobs.

Toddler classes here are hit and miss at best. We do the activity with the toddlers and I am always friendly and sociable but somehow it’s hard to strike up meaningful conversations beyond ‘how old is she …’

I have seen on another thread that you should be apparently organising childcare swaps with other mums to cover for school holidays and the like and I’m not against that in theory but in practice I do wonder if one persons village is another persons CF. AIBU?

There seems to be a school of thought on MN that you can't have kids unless you have guaranteed childcare for their 18 years. So nobody can move away/change jobs/get ill/elderly/die.

That viewpoint is shared by childcare providers, who will phone social services if they can't get hold of you first time they ring (slight exaggeration I know). Not sure what we all did before mobile phones, as far as the last point is concerned (and yes some mums DID work - if they weren't at home you just had to wait until they were!)

And yes, it's not that easy to make friends. Plenty of threads on here attest to the fact that the school gates are a scary place - people are cliquey and don't want to mix with people who have small houses/not the right sort of cars etc. And even if you do make friends, there is no guarantee that they don't work and will be available to collect your child if you can't.

Maybe your husband could arrange childcare swaps with other dads. What has he been doing to make other dad friends to facilitate this?

I thought the phrase meant that children need to learn and develop with input from lots of different sources, such as local friends and neighbours, teachers etc. To raise them into well rounded adults

Yup. Very little to do with childcare.

The village never meant an abundance of free childcare, simply that children need a range of influences to be well rounded.
Sometimes that includes family or friends watching them, but it also includes other parents in the park telling off your kid when they are a little shit, it includes letting old women chat to your baby, it involves developing a close bond with relatives. Too many mums these days want the former without the latter, they expect in-laws or friends to be willing to watch their child while at the same time keeping them at arms length and it doesn’t work like that. They expect tonnes of physical support from friends without ever really going out of their way for people because ‘boundaries’

Are these people talking of the village talking about older kids? There’s an age when it is little to no hassle to have an extra child in your home - I’d say between 6 and 11. In my experience there is a lot of childcare swapping during those years. Also if you do school pick ups you become very familiar with the parents in your child’s school year. You also meet at school fetes, concerts, etc. and you help each other out.

op the toddler years can be very lonely. I imagine even more so if you gave birth during the pandemic. It is tough, but it does get easier

I agree with pp that 'the village' was not about childcare but about not being afraid to intervene with other people's dc, whether it was to tell them off or keep them safe, but I am in my 50s and live locally to my huge family and whenever we needed a babysitter we paid one, usually a local teenager. My parents did the same. Building a network of likeminded parents is a great idea but I am not sure how well it would work in practice.

Exactly!

The village was not about free services TO the parents, it's about accountability of the parents and kids to the wider society. That all are able to correct, rebuke and shape the growing child, and the societal expectations that the child will behave properly.

TBH, my village doesn't consist of mothers who I rely in for childcare. One of my friends is a childminder, she's the only person outside of family I trust with either of my kids.
My village consists of other mothers who I will never have provide childcare for me, and I'll never provide it for them, but were absolutely there to cheerlead eachother on, and our kids in their milestones.
Then there's a bunch of neighbours who are at different stages of motherhood, that we can all provide a bit of support to as and when we see eachother, then there's MILS friends and family, who are all about to offer advice and a hug for the baby.

My village feels more like a warm shining light of warmth if that makes sense? If I need a bit of support, I've got a good 10 doors I can knock on. I wouldn't necessarily drop my son with any of them unless it was paid for, or arranged in advance with MIL, but maybe thats more my decision in being a bit cautious with who is around my son alone x

Well I don't really know how to answer that. I have made friends that I've shared childcare swaps with throughout my dcs' lives. Some of them were from baby groups, some from school, one from swimming lessons. I work, so do they - it only really works because we're in the same boat and can offer mutual support. We suggested things on the class WhatsApp or whatever , sorted a rota etc. You do you, I guess, but I don't know what is naive about the suggestion that putting yourself out there can reap rewards and be mutually beneficial.

I couldn’t cope without my nursery and school parents network. We all swap and do favours, an early drop off, late pick up, strike day swaps. I don’t see why you wouldn’t?

I’ve always had a village. Parents were too far away for childcare. DH’s hours too long and unpredictable to be able to count on. DC are 20s now but I’m still in touch with and see ‘the villagers’. My children stay with them- for eg. Overnight before a course, or flight and vice versa.
It’s a long game. DD1 and I are going to a glamorous wedding overseas next month, when I initially met bride and mum nearly 30 years ago I found them a bit intense. I set boundaries- proper ones not just saying no- and they’re practically family now.

Yeah this attitude is alien to me. I think the parents of kids at my children's school are prime candidates to be friends. Why wouldn't they be? And you get to know them pretty well as you see them every day, chat to them at endless parties and (when kids are little), at park trips, class drinks. I've just been camping with a bunch of them. I absolutely wouldn't bat an eye if one of them asked if I could look after their kid for a bit. In fact it happens all the time. I took an extra one camping, and I'm picking a couple of others up on Friday because school finishes early. Equally I'd be very comfortable asking if someone could pick up one of mine if I need to be somewhere with the other. I did that last week. Is very normal. I'm in London and most people have two parents working at least part time and it's common not to have family nearby, maybe that's a factor.

I think of parents I know through DS as aquaintances, people I'm happy to make small talk with, accommodate play dates for the sake of DS really. I would never dream of asking them to do regular childcare although I think in an emergency they'd help.
In reality we have little in common other than the age of our children.
With work friends you've chosen the same industry, and I work in a pretty vocational field so that tends to mean you have shared values and been through some mutual pretty horrific experiences together, efficacy is actually quite bonding. So I don't think it's the same. Also pick up and drop off are 5/10 minutes tops and often at different times due to activities, after school club etc. Having said that I don't live in an area with a lot of SAHMs so everyone is always dashing off somewhere. I can imagine if you drop off and don't have anything urgent to do you might go for coffee etc and get to know other parents better.
School parents are just adults I endure soft play parties with in the main.

This is at the root of many MN struggles I believe. You can't ostracise yourself from everything/everyone and not expect to find yourself in hardship.

That, and 'I couldn't possibly impose'. Well, people don't normally race to aid of people who are doing just fine.

FWIW I'm happy for the older ladies in the park to chat to DS or a stranger to tell him off if he's done something wrong/rude that I haven't seen

I completely agree with this. There's a whole subset of people on here who seem to really struggle with the idea that friendships outside of the family unit have any value: it's all about the nuclear family unit and any other interaction with anyone else is essentially suspect: "school gate mums" are out to get you, friends are subject to a one strike and you're blocked attitude with respect to socialising etc. Any kind of social event is a source of anxiety. This is the antithesis of the "village", it's a mean minded attitude and really toxic.

I lost count of the amount of threads I saw during COVID with people rejoicing in the fact they'd had no contact outside their household for months on end. It was really quite worrying.

And also really dangerous because it only takes the "little family" to break down for people to be really up shit creek, lonely and isolated or in a worst case scenario homeless.

I think a lot of people are passing on very anxiety-driven and suspicious approaches about other people to their kids and it's really unhealthy. You don't necessarily have to believe in a "village" but the idea that the outside world is a source of hostility and suspicion is one that is worrying prevalent.

It's much easier once they're at school. If you have time then I honestly recommend joining the PTA (although that might get me instantly removed from MN......)

It’s exactly like this in other countries, just not in the UK as most people seem to be precious about their kids and discipline and respect for elders is lacking

It only worked for me in emergencies - not something I would rely on day in day out. My kids, my problem. But I feel this about all non-family relationships. I expect fun from friends, not practical help, and that’s what they expect from me.

I think most peoples villages consist of families or if you’re lucky a friendly neighbour. I know a lot of people who do childcare swaps, but it doesn’t usually happen until they’re at school and have classmates. It seems to be an arrangement a bit like I’ll have yours on a few Tuesdays in the hols if you can have mine on a few Thursdays. I don’t think it’s ever a ‘free’ village, it’s reciprocal.

You say you’d do a day but not something regular (not judging I’d be the same), so you probably can only expect the same back. I guess it depends on how much you’re struggling with cover over the summer holidays as to if it’s worth the swapping.

I haven’t heard of it so much with younger children, just because it’s much harder to juggle 2 under a certain age. However it’s lot easier to ask if anyones struggling for cover and would you be willing to have mine if I had yours type arrangement, than just straight up ask if they could have yours on a certain day. I’m sure people would help but it feels awkward to ask.

That's a lovely definition :)

Yes to this! So many new parents seem to resent people wanting to see and hold their baby, lots of talk of passing them around like a parcel, and this isn't randomers they are talking about, but their close relatives, their 'village'.

The village never was about free childcare.

Have a look at the childfree subreddit; it's full of people who have actively chosen not to have children, but who are constantly being expected by others to babysit and when they decline it's "but my villllaaaaggggeeeee". There's never, of course, any reciprocity offered. Need your cat fed when you go on holiday? Fat chance.

The village is the farmer who grows food for your children, the civil engineer who keeps the drinking water safe, the doctor who vaccinates them, teachers, the shopkeeper who patiently helps them count out their pocket money to buy sweets, and your neighbour giving them a bollocking for being antisocial. You will never meet most of the people who have a hand in getting your child safely to adulthood. It never was about free childcare.

It's just kind of like, realistically, you can't expect to exist in a tiny bubble. And if you have so far you are very lucky (if that's what you want) In general, people need a village of some sort, even something as small as taking in a parcel or whatever. I don't think humans were meant to exist in a vacuum.

I find talk of 'the village' so strange, it's like a different world. Neither me nor DH have any friends or family and we brought DD up with no support of any kind, no babysitting, nobody to call for a lift to a&e when she had a minor injury or similar (we don't drive), nobody to help out when we've both been ill etc. And none of the fun stuff either - no birthday parties or anyone to chat to about parenting stuff or just to unwind with.

I've always thought it sounds lovely to have any support at all like that. If you're lucky enough to, treasure it.