to think uk children in general did not have a bad experience during the pandemic

[orangeleavesinautumn]

Just read yet another post when inappropriate behaviour in a teen is put down to delayed trauma from covid times.

Having worked as a teacher in many countries, I can tell you that the conditions we called "lock down" are normal life for many of the world's children, and our children are incredibly privileged compared to most.

They didn't really suffer, they just had a slightly less ultra-privileged life for a short time. They were not more isolated and deprived than "normal" they were less isolated and deprived than normal, in a world wide sense - they were just more isolated and deprived than we have come to expect in our wealthy world.

Some may have been afraid, or bereaved, but most were not, and many enjoyed themselves enormously, more children I know preferred lock down to normal school, than preferred normal school to lockdown - and I have asked literally hundreds of children!

Can we stop telling them they are disadvantaged and traumatised now please!

Have you taught in a UK school during the past 2 years OP?

I’ve been teaching for 20 years and the behaviour of a handful of children aged 11-13 is the worst I’ve seen. Colleagues across the country say the same. Our hypothesis is that they’ve missed out in a crucial developmental stage, whereby they internalise rules/routines/social norms - these children behave as if they’ve never entered a classroom. Year 7 (and I’m hearing Y6) are particularly impacted.

In an ironic twist, one parent said to senior leadership recently, ‘He’s fine at home so it’s your problem.’ No, it’s because he spent an extended period locked down in YOUR home that he’s now experiencing horrendous problems in school!

Not my experience at all op.My teens are still
living with the aftermath.
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/11/doctors-warn-of-tsunami-of-pandemic-eating-disorders

In which countries are children normally legally forbidden from meeting friends? Because the only circumstances I can think of would be teenage girls in very strict Muslim countries and even then they'd be able to meet friends with the right chaperoning.

Lots of children do have very hard lives, I'm not arguing that. But I can't quite see that that is the same as lockdown.

I find people always think the age of the kids worst affected are the age of the kids they have/ teach/ know. Everyone is always trying to argue who had it worse. The teens that missed out on GCSE exams and proms. The uni students who missed out on freshman year and the parties. The reception year kids who missed out on social skills.
The fact is it sucked for many people of all ages. And some it didn't. But by telling children and young people they have it the WORST EVER and they're all traumatised isn't helping anyone. It's fine to acknowledge it, but I find it's constantly being drummed into the younger generation just how horrible it was.
In my work I had a 21 year old recently telling me how her generation was so screwed because of covid. How there was no recovery from it and going on about how it was just the worst thing ever and all older generations will never understand and allowances should be made for her generation. (Should add I work in a medical field and I was only making polite chit chat about how her uni course was going). This obsession with being the MOST VICTIMISED EVER in many many aspects of life needs to stop. Plenty of generations had awful things happen. And I think most people acknowledge it was terrible for a lot of people. But at some point people are going to have to stop making excuses for it being the reason for every behaviour going.

I think you don't know as much about the UK as you think you do@orangeleavesinautumn .

My DC3 has found it so much harder going to school since lockdown, it has been very hard for some children to get back to 'normal'.

Are you making some assumptions that come from a place of your privilege? Travelling from continent to continent is a luxury that most of us don't have.

I think that you have forgotten the fear of the early days and the empty supermarket shelves. How quickly (a few days) our comfortable lives can come undone.

Where do you think bad behaviour comes from? If it is not from a lack of something what is it from? Is it the kids' fault? Does it matter who is at fault? What is the solution?

How are young people going to start their own lives in years to come? It is already a several times harder than it was for their parents and grandparents and you, OP. Who around them can relate to that?

I'm not really sure what point you are making. If course their lives are more comfortable than many people elsewhere in the world, but their prospects compared to adults around them are greatly diminished.

I think the idea that you can ask a class full of children what it was like and how it impacted them and get an answer of any true value or clarity is SO utterly ridiculous I don’t know where to start.

My children are slightly older and will tell you it was “fine”. What else are they going to say?

Have you actually looked into studies on the impact of lockdowns on children's mental health, OP? Or is all this just based off you asking a class?

Really interested to know which countries have schools in which primary aged children are routinely not allowed to go outside into the playground, or see classmates, teachers or family, more than once a month. How exactly are they being taught, if they aren’t allowed contact with the teachers or their classmates? How are they fed, is a tray slid into the isolation cell? I’ve also worked in a lot of developing countries, and I have to say I don’t know of any which have schooling systems anything like that.

If you mean boarding schools where they are only allowed home once a month, but they mix freely with the other pupils and teachers, that is a bit different isn’t it? Because they are still getting teaching and socialisation.

Many children, mine included, were stuck inside flats with no garden for months at a time, with one parent at work (essential worker) and the other attempting to work from home. DS was a toddler, so while his socialisation and ability to deal with transitions was affected (had noticeably regressed on return to his previous nursery) there was no permanent damage.

Some of my colleagues had primary aged kids, who were not old enough to sit at a laptop and work. Their schooling was disrupted for about two years. If you actually are a teacher, do you not think that missing Reception and Y1 might have an impact on attainment?

Yes, they get more schooling that children enslaved in clothing factories in Bangladesh. But when they sit exams or apply for jobs, they are being compared with previous years of children in the UK, not illiterate children in developing countries.

Yep- this. I dont really see the point of this post. You could also argue that ALL British people have it easy compared to those who live in Syria. It may well be true but that doesnt mean there arent lots of people in this country who arent struggling with things like illness, domestic violence, or poverty. Its not really much comfort to people struggling to say well, it could be worse! you could be in Syria is it?

My 11yo DS would tell you that he preferred lockdown as he didn't have to go to school if you asked him. In truth - it has left huge scars on him - he has anxiety and OCD as result of it. He lost three grandparents, now struggles with socialising and is obsessed with death and germs. He doesn't see the link to lockdown - we and his therapist do.

I have asked literally hundreds of children

You might want to check the dictionary for the definition of “literally”. Because I say you’re literally lying.

Exactly. As someone who worked in psych, you are being incredibly naive OP to think if a child tells you lockdown was fine, that means they are fine. Staggeringly naive.

Exactly this. We can't refuse to accept trauma because someone, somewhere has it worse, it's not a competition! It's like saying it's silly to grieve the loss of one parent because some people lost both. Trauma is personal, and relates to how the person feels, not how other people might feel in comparison.

I am aware that life is general is better in the UK than some other countries, and we are lucky to have the benefits system, furlough etc. but there has been a huge spike in mental health problems in children and adults post covid. I worked throughout the pandemic, educating and supporting the most vulnerable groups, some of who still came into the classroom physically for their well being. This was great but I wasn't allowed to see my support network, which was not so great. My mental health suffered and, of course, this had an impact on my child. Yes, some children may have enjoyed learning from home, a slower pace of life but others lost their routine, had parents struggling with their mental health and that has to cause some type of impact/trauma. My SEN child became excessively clingy and avoidant of others, which is only just (literally in the last 3 months) starting to change, damage was done.

That’s ok then OP. I’ll just let my son know that he didn’t need the counselling for his ongoing separation anxiety after all,(clearly exacerbated by covid), because you said that children elsewhere have it worse, and that he just needs to stop now. Thanks sooooo much for just fixing that overnight by making such a statement.

I see no problems with your data gathering method, absolutely none at all

I see this is a bog standard “U.K. parents are shit” thread, but with added covid to goad a bit more

COVID has had an impact on children across all ages. I work in education. Challenging behaviour has increased post COVID.

Younger children missing health visitor appointments have SEN needs that have not been picked up until they are now starting primary.

SEMH needs are through the roof.

Children were given access to devices earlier than they would have to 'keep them busy' in lockdown. That has had an impact.

We have seen children who were starting secondary school in 2020 (current y9) have significantly higher needs, and this is believed to be due to them missing all the usual y6 leaver events, and not having a usual transition into Secondary school.

Yes, UK children may have 'had it easier' than other countries but you can't minimise their experiences and the effect it has had.

My kids were in an awful state and lockdown was horrendous. I can't think of anywhere in the world where you are locked away from your family and friends and never see some of them again because they died alone in hospital. Nice for you and yours that lockdown wasn't that bad OP but it certainly was not that way for everyone.

Trauma is a personal experience. You can't say oh a kid in this war torn country home was bombed so your not allowed to find anything bad as that trumps all your feelings.

I think maybe for some kids it was fine, but some in broken homes or stressful home environments wouldn't of had any reprieve or escape from it. I don't have older kids yet (current LO a baby) so don't have the experience of what lockdown was like with schooling, socialisation ect. I just think comparing traumas and deciding who had it worse is never a hole to go down.

Your 30 kids you asked? Were they all in your class? Depending on your demographic? For all we know your in a lovely village school where most parents worked from home. Could be different from a school near a council estate in London?

Seriously...huge effort...I know of several teenagers who can't leave their room, my DD age class missed reception and they all been effected... school been amazing but it's across the board...huge effort on children...lots of anxiety now

How do you know?

You're not in their heads.

Is this about a race to the bottom as in "Well those children had it worse so there" fashion?

Maybe you're getting off on posters wasting their time explaining to you in detail why UK children weren't the privileged pandemic crew

I can’t agree OP. If nothing else, the sudden overnight changes to impose lockdown, the uncertainty of it all and the stress they’d have picked up from parents/the media would have had an impact.

I also (and apologies if this was mentioned - I missed a page!) think there’s a ££££ issue here. My kid had a lovely time over lockdown - both parents at home suddenly so no nursery, lots of time in the garden, baking, bike rides etc. She ended up several years ahead academically and fluent in her dad’s first language. Compare that to the kid down the road with parents in insecure/zero hours work, or keyworker status, or domestic violence at home, or food insecurity without the school to help.

I suppose if you compare the life of a middle class British kid in lockdown who didn’t lose anyone to covid to a child elsewhere in the world living with war or in abject poverty, then yes - you’re right, OP.

But there is no doubt children suffered in a variety of ways in this country as a result of the pandemic. I don’t think it’s helpful to say ‘you’re not living in a war zone, so pull yourself together!’, really.

I also work in education, and as well as the general problems arising from covid - higher levels of poor mental health & self harm, an obvious disruption in children’s social development, speech and language etc - there are many children who suffered greatly.

Children already living with abuse and neglect had an horrific time in lockdown. The number of children I work with who have social care intervention has shot up massively over the past two years. We aren’t talking about small numbers either. This is a societal issue that has to be understood and addressed. Trauma informed practice is one very good way of addressing it.

Children do certain activities for a relatively short length of time, and learn certain skills at certain ages. Their experiences have a greater effect because they make up a far greater proportion of the child's life experiences. Being blocked from activities, socialising, family, school, nursery, playgroups etc etc of course had a negative impact. It doesn't mean the impact will be permanent, but failing to recognise this, against all evidence, is simply incorrect.

I hope you're not working as a teacher now.

You have a very narrow view of what a UK child's life is and the importance of relationships in a child's life.

It is traumatic to be suddenly cut off from friends and GPs etc. I'm not sure which countries you speak of where that's the norm? Poverty is entirely different but often comes with stronger social links out of necessity.

I think I understand now OP.

This is the spiel right, “

so many children are saying that they had a great time (banana bread, garden, baking, extra support from working from home loving parents) that if you/your child didn’t a great time, it is all your fault”.

“and if you cannot accept that it all is your fault, think think of all the children in war torn countries. You selfish idiot!”

no wonder all children you spoke to said they had a great time.