to think uk children in general did not have a bad experience during the pandemic

[orangeleavesinautumn]

Just read yet another post when inappropriate behaviour in a teen is put down to delayed trauma from covid times.

Having worked as a teacher in many countries, I can tell you that the conditions we called "lock down" are normal life for many of the world's children, and our children are incredibly privileged compared to most.

They didn't really suffer, they just had a slightly less ultra-privileged life for a short time. They were not more isolated and deprived than "normal" they were less isolated and deprived than normal, in a world wide sense - they were just more isolated and deprived than we have come to expect in our wealthy world.

Some may have been afraid, or bereaved, but most were not, and many enjoyed themselves enormously, more children I know preferred lock down to normal school, than preferred normal school to lockdown - and I have asked literally hundreds of children!

Can we stop telling them they are disadvantaged and traumatised now please!

So your claim is that in China, Eastern Europe and other countries you have lived in, children don't leave the house, they only study at home online, don't go to activities with other children and don't meet more than five family members at a time?

Where on earth were you living?

I've lived all over. Noone lived like that. Poorer countries were often the most sociable - kids weren't at home on xboxes, they were out in the streets. I can't believe anyone else believes a word you are saying tbh.

Try being in Australia during lockdown. Sucked!!! YABVVVU

You can't expect a child to understand something they've never experienced.
So to say you're privileged, you've got no idea, is right.
But we can't expect them to be grateful when most of there childhood or teenage years were dramatically changed.
Some kids in Melbourne didn't go to school for nearly two years.
You can't say to them "think yourself lucky you don't live in China".

Can't speak for all but for many front line workers and their children it was business as usual. With added hysteria!

Children in the UK are more isolated than in any of the African countries I’ve worked in where children usually have large extended families and interact with their community in a way that is not the norm here. Can you be specific about where in the world you are talking about OP?

No one that has studied this disease has ever described it as relatively harmless. (And it's mutating constantly, so delta variants, for instance, can't be compared with omicron related variants.) Not China, where there's currently a surge forecast to cause hundreds of millions of infections. That's why it's classified BSL3. Much higher risk than the flu. Worse consequences. Mental health can be worked on, long term illness/damage, not so much - which, by the way, also impacts mental health. As does covid infection.

In case you would like to read some research... here's a link

Yanbu in that they didn’t have it difficult compared to certain countries BUT it was a scary time where they were told ‘don’t leave your house or there will be consequences’, stay out of shops, on the radio there were repeated wash your hands and stay home or this virus could kill people you love. They missed out on the usual things teens do. In particular I feel so much for kids just leaving school being made feel like socialising was a criminal activity. And I’m one who had a better lockdown than most. Actually sorry yabu

Justsaynonow
sleepyscientist

@Justsaynonow so your not okay with taking your chance against a virus which we could already see from china was relatively harmless
How was it relatively harmless before vaccines were made? Did you see the tally of body count in Italy? Ambulances at morgues with dead people queued around blocks?! At the start of this it was right it was treated like Ebola because it was killing people and as someone who got long Covid it was not relatively harmless- I never had health issues before it then had heart/ chest pains from walking a few steps. I object to the idiotic rules they had at times/ in particular when they did figure out how to keep people safe/ and that people followed those times to such an extent that they probably infected people afterwards because they couldn’t think for themselves to take sensible precautions (eg if I had a bug now I’d stay away from people but people said ‘but the rules say!’) and also the big bad blame game when people needed contact/help/human company, but to say all the measures weren’t required is an insult to people who did die or get long term illness out of it (I no longer get chest pains but I know people who are still impacted and have reduced function)

It's not a race to the bottom. I've taught for decades and we are definitely seeing the effects of lockdown on younger kids who were in Reception/year 1 in 2020. They are noticeably more needy and less socialised than normal.

Your post is a fine example of anecdata OP. Yiu asked kids in a classroom in front of their peers, not sure how truthfully they would answer in front of others in a class. They might be putting a brave face on it. It also depends How you asked them. Also, these are all kids from the same school so you would not have the variety of different demographics, so your research is fundamentally flawed and is likely to produce a skewed result.

What do you teach, inherent privilege and blinkers???

Just look at how many cases are starting to come out, bit by bit, of child and animal abuse during lockdown if you want to understand just how sh*t it was for some kids and families. And they're almost certainly just the tip of the iceberg.

Look up generational trauma too; PTSD, especially complex PTSD, can take decades to show. We don't yet know the full picture of what this is going to do to us as a species, but if you have lived in a country where you have been taught you have relative freedom for generations and those freedoms are suddenly withdrawn and you can be fined by the police for simply going for a walk as happened in Derbyshire and many other places, I would venture to suggest it probably came as a bit of a shock. That's before we get to anything practical like changes in food security.

It really wasn't all banana bread and boxsets for many, but if you've never taught in really poor inner city or rural schools you will only know your reality. I'm guessing it isn't English literature you teach, and I really hope it isn't anything on the social sciences or healthcare side of the curriculum. You may, as you claim, have genuinely taught all over the place, but if that's been as supply, say, whatever you might think, ot takes a long time for some less privileged kids to trust a new teacher, if indeed some of them ever do. They'll be wanting to fit in with the class consensus.

But hey, hurrah for your resilience and amazingly robust research methodology. I can only hope broader life experience is on the way for you.

You obviously don’t work in a deprived area OP.
My friend is a deputy head in an inner city school and for many kids school was respite from an awful home life. They had far more safeguarding issues raised during lockdown than any other time.

For example I've worked in schools where children live their whole child hoods in what we would term "lockdown" and it is considered normal life, leaving the premises once a month at most, and then only for a hour or two. Nothing unusual about that.

In eastern Europe, in Africa, in India, in Malaysia, in rural China I have seen communities more restricted than what we would consider "lock down" - but it is just considered normal life, no one is traumatised or feels deprived.

Do tell us more,.OP, about these multiple places you've been where people live under permanent lockdown conditions. Fascinating.

I think this is a dangerous thread to pull at as it can quickly lead down the "nobody should ever complain about anything ever because there is somebody somewhere in the world having it worse than you are" route.... Yes, other children have it worse, but that doesn't take from the fact that young children in "privileged" societies had a huge change, lived a life they previously had zero experience of, heard nothing but scaremongering for months, went periods of time without seeing loved ones, friends, family.... Don't tell me that doesn't bring some trauma to the table for some.

I am a secondary teacher and the difference in the social skills and academic skills of students coming into us now compared to a few years ago is huge. The biggest challenges we have are with the year two groups that didnt get a proper transition period from primary to secondary due to covid. That can't be a coincidence.

Two year groups*

This doesn't chime with my experience at all. In my local boroughs children's social workers weren't carrying out proper child protection visits (quick chat through a window mainly), at risk children not being seen in schools. We're still seeing the result of this through case reviews. Most of my DD's friends live in flats without gardens, cooped up in small spaces. Some of them have high numbers of siblings and they had no access to computers or other ways to interact with the school. I know a number of children who were bullied attending keyworker school, inadequately supervised and no doubt a lot of the kids worrying about parents working in hospitals and care homes. Most kids I know who were at home have two working parents so little interaction with adults or support with learning during the day

That's not to say that lots of kids weren't having a lovely time but I'm not sure comparing with other countries is particularly helpful. I'm also not sure that most who had a difficult time would tell you, especially as they were expected to 'get on with it' and then expected to behave like it never happened

You ask a very small sample.

A lot of children lost close family members. Went through significant financial trouble. Struggled with enforced isolation.

Some breezed through and actually enjoyed the lack of social pressure.

And everything in between . Generalisations are not usually helpful

Yeah you're right OP. We should lock them all up again. Doesn't do them any harm, after all.

How old were these children you asked? Mine were 10 and 7. My dh is paramedic and I worked full time from home for at least 50 hrs per week. Schooling was practically zero. So on top of being frightened for their dad's welfare they were deeply lonely. I could see the impact on their physical health - they went grey. It was awful. So with respect, your view is a very very very poorly formed. I am genuinely concerned that you are a teacher given your lack of basic intelligence.

Lucky you. That wasn't the case for everyone and that you cannot acknowledge that makes you come across as very insensitive.

Where is it normal for children not to socialise with other children?

Surely it's all relative? Just because the UK, in general, is more privileged than other parts of the world, does not mean children here cannot, and did not, feel unsafe/traumatised/upset due to their living conditions during the pandemic. Their experience is not invalidated because they live in a country which is considered wealthy.

I do agree that it seems like a convenient excuse for schools but there needs to be a balance between questioning the school and ensuring the children do not feel dismissed because they live in a "privileged society".

Both my kids were in school though it (keyworker). If you asked my oldest in front of the class he’d certainly lie. He was the only one in his year group attending school for weeks, and spent his days lonely, scared and developed OCD as a result. He is still struggling badly with OCD, which morphed from obsession about hand washing, to believing he’ll die if he touches “cursed objects”. He thought he’d die when he got covid - he’s had worse colds- and is now terrified of getting ill.
my youngest is autistic, and actually enjoyed lockdown school- it was quieter, he had two of his best friends there and got way more 1-1 that he ever would normally.
so no, asking a class full of kids will not elicit truthful responses, and even asking them individually probably won’t unless you are prepared to spend the time really delving into their mindset. I’d guess you’re not a psychologist so you aren’t going to get a real answer to your question from the vast majority of kids.