to think uk children in general did not have a bad experience during the pandemic

[orangeleavesinautumn]

Just read yet another post when inappropriate behaviour in a teen is put down to delayed trauma from covid times.

Having worked as a teacher in many countries, I can tell you that the conditions we called "lock down" are normal life for many of the world's children, and our children are incredibly privileged compared to most.

They didn't really suffer, they just had a slightly less ultra-privileged life for a short time. They were not more isolated and deprived than "normal" they were less isolated and deprived than normal, in a world wide sense - they were just more isolated and deprived than we have come to expect in our wealthy world.

Some may have been afraid, or bereaved, but most were not, and many enjoyed themselves enormously, more children I know preferred lock down to normal school, than preferred normal school to lockdown - and I have asked literally hundreds of children!

Can we stop telling them they are disadvantaged and traumatised now please!

Which countries in the world routinely bring up their children unable to see friends and family, unable to leave the house or participate in school/ activities/ social interactions? it’s perfectly obvious it was detrimental by the increase in serious mental health conditions and suicide.

The impact of the pandemic will have been felt more by children already living in poverty and experiencing social isolation or marginalisation

Op, did you know that in the UK, 30 per cent of children, or 9 in a classroom of 30 are living in poverty. That is not a small or insignificant number.

Here are some statistics from 2019/2020, when the pandemic began. It’s getting even worse now.

https://endchildpoverty.org.uk/key-facts/

Yes, let’s measure everything against the living standards of developing countries, and only kick up a fuss if we fall below that level. Great idea

Oh well, I'm sure if I tell my son that children in other countries have it worse than him, he'll feel a whole lot better about the OCD he acquired during lockdown. The OCD which means our family is basically still in a kind of lockdown because DS2 can barely go out due to his anxiety. He's only 10 and is trapped in an endless cycle of repetitive rituals. And according to his therapist, he's one of many directly affected by the Pandemic and the associated government response. The waiting lists for treatment are shocking.

Out of genuine curiousity, I have to ask what cultures these are?

But there are very many children who did suffer - children from abusive\neglectful\underprivileged\unhappy homes who didn’t have any escape\reprieve from their homes or free school meals etc. Think of all the high profile cases there have been of children where the abuse went unnoticed / unchallenged during lockdown. I work as a teacher with older kids and I notice that we have many more kids with very poor communication skills/ mental health problems than before COVID. A great many of them were shut up in bedrooms for two years with games consoles and no day or night. Also the standard of work/ ability to work has dropped dramatically because of schools being closed /reduced assessment

OP, children’s whole reality was turned on itfx head, they were not allowed to go to school which had previously been compulsory, and they were essentially under house arrest, unable to leave their homes except to walk around the block, for ages, why would you be trying to arguing this was a essentially fine, during crucial periods of their development.

Let me see they missed school, didn't see friends for months, missed birthdays, weddings, concerts etc and were told that a deadly virus was circulating so we all had to stay home. Oh and in our case we worked as normal through out so no we didn't get extra time together, then once it was all coming to an end we ended up isolating cancelling the holiday we had booked.

We failed as a country, we were the first with a vaccine yet we didn't gamble with it we waited for the data. The clinical trial started in April 2020 but we did a proper trial when we should have been vaccinating all the elderly regardless of the evidence and by mandatory vaccination as early as the February.

This generation of kids is going to look back and realise we prioritised the elderly and vulnerable over them when we are supposedly a children first country! They shouldn't have missed a day of anything the vulnerable should have been staying in total isolation and we should have had those people vaccinated by the summer. Now that would have been something to celebrate.

So what you seem to be saying is "kids in some countries aren't allowed to leave the house for more than an hour a day and all their learning is online". Is that what you're saying? I'm familiar with countries you have mentioned and know that not to be the case, could you elaborate please?

My ds was 11 when covid hit. His school switched to teams lessons full time. I was furloughed so I made sure he was in each lesson. We went cycling or walking or had kickabout every lunch hour, and again every evening.

I redecorated the house while he was in lessons. I baked most days or worked in the garden but was there if he needed me.

DS' karate classes moved on-line so twice a week we would clear the sitting room, set up a video link and do an hour's karate.

It was a bit solitary but with video calls to family and on-line Minecraft chat, he did ok.

I know what you mean.; on paper our lockdown doesnt seem so bad for many. But relationships between children and those in authority, including school, shifted during covid. Schools were maybe naive to think it would all slot straight back into place exactly as it was before.

Since covid, many more boys act out in class. Many more girls self harm or develop anorexia. So how do you explain that, if not as post covid trauma?

If you suddenly forced these children from covid lockdown type restricted backgrounds the freedoms uk children usually have for 2 years then made them go back to their normal levels of restriction you don't think those shifts could have a negative psychological effect on them?

Have to say DS liked lockdown, loved remote learning.

I have wondered how children in other countries have similar issues that are being blamed on COVID in this country. I always think of the children in Spain who weren’t allowed outside for weeks

It's all relative. A lot of children didn't know much about what was going on in other countries, they only knew that their lives were awful.

My dc had significantly less of my time/supervision during lockdown because I was trying to get a 5 year old and a 8 year old to do lessons when they would much rather look at hamsters doing an obstacle course on YouTube. My then 12 year old took an overdose of sleeping tablets. I couldn't stand it and cried myself to sleep most nights. Meanwhile my in-laws were going on and on via zoom about the wonderful time they were having.

Sorry OP, a bit of a derail here, but I'm still astonished that trying to prevent repeated infection by a rapidly mutating Biosafety level 3 airborne pathogen was so unpopular, and that allowing unfettered spread is not considered a vastly dangerous and unethical experiment. Maybe it's Covid's detrimental impact on the brain that's inhibiting critical thinking and promoting the acceptance of the minimizing/russian roulette approach?

Just wanted to point out that covid is still here, causing long term systemic consequences for many - and not just the elderly. Children. Unborn children. I am not down playing the impact of social isolation, etc., but the potential medical consequences of one infection, let alone multiple, are horrifying and in some cases life long and life limiting. Immune deficiency, neurologic issues, autoimmune disorders, cardiac issues, diabetes, accelerated cancer and dementias...resulting in even more strain on medical and social supports. Repeated infections allow the virus to mutate. The best way to stop the virus is to prevent the spread - mask/good air quality etc.

@Justsaynonow so your not okay with taking your chance against a virus which we could already see from china was relatively harmless but you were happy to play Russian roulette with peoples mental health? It's all about a risk assessment, if we were dealing with Ebola the measures would have been appropriate to the risk vs a flu like virus in which case they were above and beyond reasonable.

Well my eldest honestly had a terrible time. No socialising, clubs, sport, school with his friends from March 2020 till returning to school in September. And then again another lockdown in the following Dec/January stuck in his bedroom in the winter. It was awful for a secondary aged child. Yes, he was fed and had access to online education and TV but he was really affected. My primary aged child coped much better.

First off, I also have worked in a number of countries, including in Southeast Asia, with vulnerable groups, many of whom really do experience a tough weight of life. I also have a disability, so experience a lot of watch our students had to go through first hand. When I was much younger, I used to think like you and say oh well the UK has some things that are so much better, and this is still true. However, as a lot of people have pointed out, each country does things its own way, and I think you have to look at it from the countries perspective and not compare. Somethings aren’t great in Vietnam, But also, some things are better in Vietnam than in the UK. When you live somewhere, you just have to take it for what it is, the good the bad the difficult and the ugly.

I am visually impaired, and as an adult, the lockdown for me in the UK was an absolute hell. I was completely isolated, I had no family nearby to help me, I couldn’t order my food online because everyone had taken up supermarket an Amazon delivery slots, and trying to get on the vulnerable list at Sainsbury’s was a task in itself. It took months, they kept changing the rules and so people who were class is vulnerable or than not class is vulnerable. The food packages that were delivered to us, and yes it was good that we at least had food packages, but a lot of the food was actually rotten. I received frozen milk, which without realizing it was much more past the date, and after a few days it wasn’t good. Since I was on my own, I didn’t realize this at first. I then lost what little vision I had during that first lockdown, couldn’t find a doctor, so I didn’t see anyone until September, and once I knew I was going to go totally blind, had no support whatsoever. If you ask many parents in the UK who have a child with special needs, I’m sure many of them can give you some really difficult stories of what they went through. Yes, there were nice times, if you can call it that, some things were made slightly easier, but a lot of online learning for children with disabilities was a rather irrelevant. How do you teach a blind child mobility or daily living skills, when touch and handover hand is so important, on an online platform? Many parents didn’t know how to help their children, since they are not specialized teachers, and sometimes, the children themselves did not want their parents to be involved with their learning. You could say that the children in Vietnam who I know we’re at home the entire lockdown, I didn’t go to school at all. Yes, they missed out a lot as well. But so did the children in the UK who lost so much. And to the person in a previous post he replied that they would have isolated anyone who was vulnerable, that wasn’t the other answer. Many of us who are classes “vulnerable“ really did suffer. I am a resilient, strong person, and even while losing my vision and was stuck within a very small studio for months on end, I kept going, I kept smiling and I got through it in one piece. But I know others who weren’t as strong as I was, and who had nobody to help.

My kids liked lockdown for the most part and we had a much much more stringent one than UK. They did minimal work at online school but still did ok, spent tons of time relaxing and then we were able to socialize and play in the backyard all summer.

However lots of their school mates live in overcrowded homes and some had to care for siblings at young ages. We had very limited school participation.

I think older age teenagers really missed out. I’ve heard about quite a few really struggling with anxiety around pressure around exams , beginning post secondary etc.

My daughter would have answered positively had you asked her. She certainly wouldn't have told you about trying to kill herself during covid aged just 11.

Not all children are the same!

My autistic son really really struggled a) with the routine changing with no notice b) being indoors so much during the day c) anxiety about me going to work and catching covid.

I find it very hard to believe that children in those countries don't get an education or to socialise.

@orangeleavesinautumn are you a teacher OP? If so, maybe you could convince your colleagues to take a collective pay cut to help the school funding? I am sure that there are teachers in many other cultures who are much worse off than in the UK - or doesn’t it work that way?

this makes me so angry, children were failed during the pandemic. Sweden kept schools open at primary level. The reason for that was the fear that closing the schools would have a disproportionately negative impact on the weakest children in society ( lowest socioeconomic groups, SEN, poor attainment /attendance). I think that is what happened as well herr.

yes, some children had a decent or even good time. This was mainly children whose pRents either could afford a larger house, a garden or even to decamp somewhere on the country side. We live in a flat and our children had a decent time as I spent the time helping them with school, taking them for walks, baking, talking to them. We don’t have that much money but I had the time - what if I had worked at Tesco? Or anywhere else where I needed to work all day for a minimum wage?

What about parents with mental health issues? Abusive parents where school was the only point of contact with other adults? How do you think those children fared?

what about the learning? again, I managed to sort my children out and we bought extra books to cover the curriculum. Luckily I am comfortable with primary school maths, including algebra. And I quite like English and science. How do you think other children fared?

I will not even go there with deaths from Covid. Not the death from the actual illness but the deaths of younger people from cancer which was left untreated. That happened to my SIL, we are still recovering from that. What about children upset about that?

The whole Covid shutdown was a massive social experiment and we caused untold damage to the weakest children in our society. The fact that some children (in nice houses, whose parents had the time to play with them, who’s parents could afford computers ) had a good time does not negate that.

YABU OP. My DC were born 10 years apart. This summer I have become very aware of the gap between DS1 and DS2's experiences at this age.

Here's someone with quite the opposite point of view:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4563246-to-say-that-every-child-and-young-person

This person thinks that every child who survived lockdown should get a medal.