to think uk children in general did not have a bad experience during the pandemic

[orangeleavesinautumn]

Just read yet another post when inappropriate behaviour in a teen is put down to delayed trauma from covid times.

Having worked as a teacher in many countries, I can tell you that the conditions we called "lock down" are normal life for many of the world's children, and our children are incredibly privileged compared to most.

They didn't really suffer, they just had a slightly less ultra-privileged life for a short time. They were not more isolated and deprived than "normal" they were less isolated and deprived than normal, in a world wide sense - they were just more isolated and deprived than we have come to expect in our wealthy world.

Some may have been afraid, or bereaved, but most were not, and many enjoyed themselves enormously, more children I know preferred lock down to normal school, than preferred normal school to lockdown - and I have asked literally hundreds of children!

Can we stop telling them they are disadvantaged and traumatised now please!

Just wondering also, are you asking these children their experiences individually? Are they primary or secondary?

Nobody HAD to answer anything, most were keen to, and of the ones who did answer, more preferred lockdown to normal school

Lots of children and young did have a bad time. But not all effects were equal.

Some experienced mental ill health. Delays to social development. Self harming and eating disorders have risen. Some will never catch up on their education.

Some had a great time.

My two had quite different experiences as my under 12 was allowed to go out to play a freely mix with the children (Scottish rule)

She had a great time.

My over 12 was not allowed to mix. Had a dreadful transition up high school. Became very introverted and withdrawn.

It's taken him a long time to get over the isolation and still lacks confidence.

YABU as there is no "UK children in general"... introvert children with an educated stay at home parent in a big house might have done really well. The extrovert child in poverty in a tiny flat, whose parents had to work, maybe not so much. And then, the kid with abusive parents for whom school was their only safe space.

You’re answering your own question - British children are used to a particular standard of living so the culture shock of that being ripped away is enormous.

You seem entirely lacking lacking in critical thinking skills.

What is the point of saying " you are not coming across as very bright" - that just makes you look like you don't have any answer, so are resorting to insults.

Some kids went through a bad time, the vast majority didn't.

And the point of comparing them to kids in countries they have never been to is to demonstrate that there is nothing intrinsically traumatising in what they experienced, as in most kids live it, and are not in any way traumatised.

With our kids it was just a temporary loss of some privileges that most kids never experience anyway - not something bad that happened to them

Well, my dd was not traumatised by lockdown and she is perfectly fine now, but she certainly didn't enjoy it and she was very happy to get back to school as soon as possible.

I know some children who positively thrived at home during lockdown and others who really struggled with their mental health during that period. Not surprisingly, kids are individuals and react differently.

I don't really understand what you're saying about other countries though. I have lived abroad in several places and don't really recognise what you describe. Yes, of course, the right to education is not upheld in many countries, but I am not sure that I have been anywhere outside covid times where social interaction is prohibited. I'm sure that does happen in some extreme circumstances, but it certainly isn't the norm in most communities.

I am comparing human children with human children

But that's the point op, 'normal' for our children in the uk is not the same as for other countries children. So the covid situation affected their normal lives. Just because a child in China for example may regularly live under stricter conditions in no way compares to children in the uk having their whole way of life altered in the space of a day or so. The whole reason covid restrictions affected people so much was the vast difference in their 'normal' life previously.some children weren't particularly affected, others suffered massively.

YABU, there are many kids for whom school is an escape from very difficult home situations. And even those students who may have enjoyed home schooling missed out on important socialising at school that would have helped them grow up and develop.

It was utterly horrific for a lot of disabled \ Neuro divergent \ children with SEN whose entire support systems (that were fought tooth and nail for in preceding years )disappeared overnight and never really got back post pandemic.

Try going to a SEN parents forum with this and let us know how you get on.

You're so right, OP.

Your average child absolutely stops to think, 'wow, we had so much of a better education in the UK, wasn't I lucky?!' And they never act out at all, because they know they had it better.

As to 'enjoying' lockdown - yes, of course lots of children enjoyed it! Duh. And equally, if I said my DD could eat sugar from 9-5, she'd love that too. Oddly enough, it doesn't actually mean that'd be good for her.

YABU perhaps some did not miss out as much & isolation suited them for others it was socially, emotionally & educationally hellish. My 3 teens missed out on key stage exams, loss of education, lack of being able to socialise at significant stages - DD suffered at starting high school & wearing masks until half way through yr 2 so barely made My new friends in a new school & not in classes with old school friend so found those friendships difficult maintain. DS 1 wasn't to start uni under normal.conditions - many struggled with online learning here too, DH works at RGuni & load drop outs were higher& many delayed starting. DS 2 at 14/5 wasn't able to become more independent as would be expected at his age. They all suffered.
That's before discussing the fact that DH was critically ill with sepsis & in hospital for months, had major heart surgery & they were unable to visit him even 1 time throughout although he was a deaths door on 2 occasions. Then they saw me go through a cancer scare with DH still in hosp, old enough to be scared of potentially losing both parents, waiting for tests during covid was fun obvs.
They also had to suffer death of a loved GM who we couldn't see for well over 18months due to lockdowns & then care home restrictions, by which time she had descended further into dementia & was unable to recognise any of us.

Other close family members were physically too far away to bubble with us so we suffered alone.
Almost every one of their friends suffered family losses, many of the kids had great difficulty resuming normal life.

Im glad those you asked for seem to be fine but do wonder if you asked their parents or dug a little deeper whether the reality would be somewhat different. Incidentally I did ask my lots pupil support staff to check in with them on return to scbool & made them aware of what was gping on. All 3 told the teachers they were 'fine 'which is a pretty typical teens reply cos they don't want to answer difficult emotional questions from any adult.
I still see changes in my kids. YABU

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what is my agenda here? Same as any mumsnet thread - I am expressing my opinion and my general frustration that poor behaviour among UK school children is still being put down to lock down, and they are basically being given a free pass, parents ( an mumsnetters) are still claiming they are traumatised, have not got over it, have not caught up, etc, when for the vast majority of them, nothing traumatic happened.

I'm still astonished that long-term isolation and desocialisation of children, for the first time in human history, was not considered a vastly dangerous and unethical experiment

I am a teacher and am pretty flabbergasted at your first and subsequent posts. You seem really lacking in insight. I’m not sure I believe you’re a teacher to be honest. Even in my privileged independent school many children struggled and we have seen knock on effects in so many ways. Not to
mention my own kids.

As if asking a room of children in front of their peers will elicit truthful responses…. 🤷‍♀️

I think lockdown had an awful effect on kids.

My eldest was in year 11 when it happened. Basically, everything she had ever known stopped. Just like that. GCSEs were cancelled, just like that and her school, seemed to think that that completely absolved them of anything. Lessons stopped - there were no online lessons or pre-recorded video - nothing. Her GCSE results were decided on anything she had done in the previous four terms. Then, there was no prom. No silver D of E, she wasn't allowed to have anything to do with her friends - except online, which is by no means the same.

She has her head screwed on and has actually coped very well with this - but many didn't. She then sat her A levels, having never sat any external exams before. The school's teaching during the second lockdown (her second term in year 12), plus any compulsory isolations for two weeks because of one case in the whole of the sixth form, was essentially non existent (basically "Read x chapter" (and somehow understand everything in that chapter and be able to Answer A level questions on it with no teaching, or access to teachers whatsoever) and her AS grades (we are in Wales and these are essentially predicted grades for A level) were estimated based on work done in her first term of sixth form. My DS was in year 9 at this point and again, got absolutely no teaching because "They're starting GCSEs in September"

As I said, she has her head screwed on and despite rubbish AS level grades, managed to come back and do very well at A level. She's taken a year out between A level and University to get back to normal (and has worked fulltime in between travelling). But many students of both her, the year below, and also my son's year have really struggled with this.

Please don't say they had a good experience. They literally lost great swathes of their childhood and had their entire futures decided on "Centre assessed grades", which were neither fair, nor accurate.

As a teacher, you should understand this

You're a teacher?

Ds3 declared once that lockdown was the happiest time of his life, so far. Both older brothers back home, great weather, no school, GCSEs cancelled, gaming with friends, no pressure, no FOMO. Living his best life!
Everyone’s got a different perspective.

@DinnaeFashYersel Don't forget the horrible time when play parks were closed and even under 12s weren't allowed to mix.
Consoles and the like were like hens teeth.

Softplay & Discos were closed for a year.
Schools weren't allowed to have assemblies until about June 22.
School bubbles kids couldn't mix with other classes.
Secondary kids were masked up far longer than necessary poor sods.

I’m with @redfacebigdisgrace on this one. I disagree with you OP. You seem to be implying that lockdown, school closures etc were not intrinsically traumatic. In my opinion (and experience) there is something traumatic in the seismic changes to usual life and routines that occurred during the pandemic. Should this be used as a ‘get out of jail free card’ for all susbsequent bad behaviour? No, of course not. I think maybe using the word traumatic is unhelpful, but I don’t think we should underestimate the impact the experience had on a significant number of children

Unfortunately you're showing very little knowledge and insight of trauma. You stated that there was "nothing intrinsically traumatic" that happened - who are you to decide what a child might have experienced as traumatic and how could you possibly know whether the majority of children did experience it as traumatic or not? Any basic understanding of trauma would allow you to understand that everyone, children included, can find different experiences traumatic and manage traumatic experiences in vastly different ways. Just because you can't see anything intrinsically traumatic doesn't mean that it wasn't. As previous posters (and masses of research) have said, many children did experience it as traumatic and have experienced ongoing mental health issues amongst other things.
As a previous poster also said - believing that every child is going to suddenly confide in you (and any of their peers listening) about their deepest darkest feelings is incredibly naive. Most children in that situation will simply reply that they're fine and it was great to be out of school, that's a standard response that they know they would be expected to give (what child is going to admit in front of their friends that they missed school?).

Little kids with speech delays, huge rise in anorexia in teenagers…..

I think the OP is on a wind up here.

Plus my youngest was in Primary school. We were lucky as keyworkers to get child care at a local school hub (but not her own school, which really unsettled her - she was 8 at the time), but many didn't have that luxury.

Even so, it was childcare and not teaching, so dh and I would have to teach her when we came home from work - often at 6 pm, when she was knackered.

I don't know how anyone can say that kids had it easy, or that it didn't affect them?

It will take decades for them to recover from this!

Where on earth are you working that you think that UK children are ‘ultra privileged’?