I sent the photos. AIBU?

[dinoice]

Will try and summarise.

Was professional, now I'm at home.

DH rented family farm, rural, scene from Walton's, three brothers and families, all older children, and his parents.

I have four under five. Sick of no holidays, so bought a wee caravan and put it on a field at the coast, about forty minutes drive.

DH, always working, fine, good dad, I accept I married into it.

Friday, huge gathering of friends from Australia, I catered it. So 35 for breakfast, Cleared up, put kids in car, went to caravan.

DH on silage, I left
Clean beds
House clean
Meals in freezer and slow cooker
Stuff for lunches, made.

I took, four kids, two dogs and left one who is tricky.

I came back today, because all have a horrid cough and I needed to wash some bedding and regroup.

I picked up a shop, arrived home.

I found
Garden covered in dog poo
Windows shut, bedroom stinky, clothes not changed before bed.
Cupboard doors open, straw all over carpet.
Toilets filthy, trainspotting style.
House a tip.
Bins overflowing.

So, I considered cleaning it, but then I thought no, I'm done.

So I fed kids, put shop away, collected third dog, took photos and headed back to caravan. Did a wash there, fed kids and then the rage took over.

Then, this is when I should have left it. I sent the photos to the family farm group.

There was all the comments of where are you, were you not due back today, blah blah.

So I saw red and put the pictures on.

DH is cross, he is busy, blah blah. But it's been raining. I'm busy, I haven't slept in years.

So. Yes I probably shouldn't have shared the photos but I lost it. I should clarify, I get NO help. Ever. I am not part of the business. I run my own. I bought myself, two successful holiday let's.

I'm not going to leave him but I hope I have got the point across. Badly albeit.

He can clean his own toilet mess whether he’s a farmer or not. It takes seconds. It’s disgusting and shows a lack of respect for you. You’re not a maid. I went HARD about this at the beginning of our relationship and, basically, you can train a man not to do this if he eventually realises not cleaning his own shit is more hassle and aggro than just doing it. Apologies to the men on this group who would never need to be told this.

I would be furious too. Knock it off with the self-laceration - he’s been gross, and deserves to have a strip being torn off him.

It’s also eye opening to read about the precariousness of farming life. How is it possible that something we literally need to survive is so low paying and financially stressful when a hedge fund manager makes millions. A job that AI can do better than a human.

Don’t apologise. He should and he should also acknowledge on the chat that he was taking advantage of you not being there and being a lazy arsehole.

You also look after his mother! You are a bloody saint.

If anything this has been flagged to the family that you need more support. They will be looking at your husband now to help you more. Maybe his brother will be more thoughtful in sending him down from fields first if only 1 needed for rest of job. Maybe your SIL didn't feel OK to step in and help you. Maybe she didn't realise how burdened you were looking after her mother.
This incident isn't because of a one off dirty toilet, it a cumulation of lack of support. 4 young kids, a farm, losing your identity, isolation, etc.
I'm sure as it's a family run farm she's been through it while her kids were younger and knows what you are going through. Sometimes just having someone to vent to that understands can be helpful. Maybe she'll offer to babysit once a week during day so you can go get hair done, have a massage, sit in a library in silence for a bit. Or keep up on legal developments so once kids in school you could look to do some homeworking for local solicitors firm or something.

I sympathise OP. My dp is not a farmer but does have hoarding / chaos tendencies.

I took our DC away on a mini break this year and the scene that greeted me on my return nearly broke me. I am not over it.

Beginning to realise that DH- who is tidier than me- is a rare jewel. I go away all the time and come back to a tidy house. Usually because he hasn't bothered to cook , and occ an overflowing laundry basket, but clean...

OP no need to apologise for sending the pictures, at all. You have been taken for granted and had to take a stand against it. I hope DH changes his ways.

YANBU to lose your shit, and YANBU to lose the photos.
Sometimes people don't hear when you ask nicely.

I don't think people generally appreciate how much work goes into putting food on our plates.

We also don't often appreciate how much work goes into raising a family till we try it. As your children get older hopefully they will be more help to you, you sound amazing.

Your husband and family are very lucky to have you OP, everyone has a breaking point and you have shown that you will not be walked over, good for you! have a lovely time down the caravan! x

I have to disagree that OP “did the right thing”- she really did not, in my opinion. I can understand why she was enraged by the mess and was upset so did something impulsively. That doesn’t make it right. OP’s husband was clearly also totally wrong/unreasonable, and very selfish, for not keeping more on top of things whilst OP was away. She was well within her rights to be furious with him. I’ve no quibble with that, just don’t agree with her methods of handling it. Involving others in your marital difficulties is unhelpful and can make things uncomfortable for others, who have no part to play in those difficulties.

I will state again- OP’s husband was utterly in the wrong. I;m not defending his actions.

However, I personally don’t think shaming and humiliating someone you care about (even if they are in the wrong) rather than speak to them directly about the situation- especially to their family and friends- is “the right thing to do” or something to praise. Nor will it, I suspect, improve the state of their relationship. It just creates another layer of anger or resentment or hurt for them both. It may lead to a temporary improvement in his tidiness, but it also may cause the opposite. I don’t think I’d react well if my husband chose to humiliate me (even if I had done the wrong thing) rather than hash it out then problem with me directly.

I think Op snapped @jacks11. I would too in this situation. Now it's done, I guess she should find a way of getting more support or doing less.

I feel your pain. I grew up on farms miles from civilisation. DM must have been a Saint. I am one of eight children, not only did DM have all of us but we shared our time between two farms so she maintained two households. The reality is a hell of a life and not one of us followed in DD's footsteps, in what had been a tradition in our family for hundreds of years. They actively encouraged us not to.

It never used to be like that - back in the day they were using shit hot chemistry irresponsibility and getting good margins, a lot of us in the industry are paying for that as there is still a stigma amongst the general public that farmers have fat profits and are waggoning range rovers around which the reality is a stark contrast for most of us.

Since the Ukraine war fertiliser costs have risen over 400% - at one point a tonne of fert was £1000 compared to the £200 we had in our budgeted cash flows. The rise of the supermarkets have squeezed our margins because they can control the price of so many things that we can’t - stuff like raw milk needs to be sold on immediately and even commodities such as wheat we can’t sit on forever as our cash flows rely on us selling a % forward at a fixed price - it’s a very volatile industry to work in and one of the reasons there is such poor mental health and high suicide rates, the highest of any industry in the UK.

add to that the pressure of the green agenda, pushing farmers to take more valuable productive land out of food and into environmental schemes will little financial incentive and the price of food becomes questionable going forward.

I have to say in the throws of covid lockdowns when binmen, posties etc were being praised it was a sour taste that the industry literally growing food to sustain us was starkly overlooked.

The future of farming does look turbulent in the immediate forecast, my husband does things that really do add to my mental workload but ultimately I know that he’s in a really dark place a lot of the time and I love him.

Jacks11 makes an interesting point I would like to counter -

I personally don’t think shaming and humiliating someone you care about (even if they are in the wrong) rather than speak to them directly about the situation- especially to their family and friends- is “the right thing to do” or something to praise

There is a philosophical train of thought that runs something like this - Why should I behave in a moral way ? Answer - because I don't want to be caught behaving immorally and to be adversely judged / ostracised by society and the people around me.

Keeping immoral, unhelpful, or just plain bad behaviour secret just allows the perpetrator the freedom to continue behaving immorally, unhelpfully or just plain wrong. OK here we're talking about a filthy toilet, but the same argument of keeping things secret has been applied to domestic abuse, sexual abuse etc and it is not healthy.

Sometimes when someone's behaviour is so extreme and they a) they don't have the insight and can't see their error or b) will not change that extreme behaviour when challenged by another adversely effected by that behaviour, they should be shown there are consequences by opening that behaviour up to the world.

There are some people out there who will behave selfishly because they can get away with it.

That dinoice was away for only 6 days and came home to a filthy house when only one person had been living there in that time. A person who works long hours and therefore spent most of any 24 hour period out of the house, means her husband went real feral real quick. And any poor domestic state would reflected badly on the OP (primarily or jointly) if anyone else had seen the mess. I could argue that dinoice was protecting her domestic reputation, although that could be seen as going over the top a bit.

Sharing the photos has caused her husband social discomfort. Hopefully it will give him the shake he needs to step up.

Totally understand! Can you not take the caravan back and put it in the yard for your husband to live in 🤣 or maybe just get a cleaner to help for a couple of months till
Kids back to school etc, sounds like you could do with some help Xx

@DPotter

I accept in OP’s case she lost the rag and acted impulsively, and I can see how and why it happened. I agree her husband behaved badly, I’d be angry too. However, I still don’t think it is the “right thing” or something to be praised, as some have done.

Though I suppose “socially shaming” him might change this particular behaviour, your argument has flaws in my view. I don’t question that conforming socially/the consequences of not being seen to confirm to social norms and/or the fear of consequences outweighing the benefits of a particular behaviour is a major driver of human behaviour. But, relevant to this particular sort of situation is the counter argument to using the “people behave because the consequence of not doing so are worse”, is that whilst it is a major driver for some behaviours, it is also the case that shaming and humiliating people does not always lead to a more positive outcome- e.g. attitudinal change. In many situations we know that engaging in shaming and humiliating others can also increase less desirable behaviours such as lying, deception and covering up for fear of consequences. It can also lead to distrust and lack of respect, resentment and distress. So yes, exposing this particular incident may lead to change in a particular behaviour to try to avoid such humiliation again- which if that is all your after might be your goal- but will it actually makes matters elsewhere worse or cause further issues than there needed to be if this has been addressed directly?

As for the argument of keeping problems in your relationship or behaviour you dislike “secret” is what allows abuse to go on undetected- yes, in some cases that will be true. However, relevant to this particular sort of scenario is that not telling all your friends and family about something which your husband did which enraged you really is not a) keeping secrets, it’s just not telling everyone- they are different things; b) not in any way hiding something as serious as domestic violence, abuse or coercion.

Being slovenly (as OP’s husband was) is unpleasant, extremely thoughtless and disrespectful to those you live with, but it is not in itself abusive. It is not “keeping it a secret” to not display disputes or less than perfect behaviour within your relationships to all your family and friends. It’s in my view unwise to triangulate family and friends into arguments/disputes/troubles in your relationship. It could be viewed (not necessarily in this case, I’d point out) or used as a form of abuse and control in itself. Again- I am not saying OP is being abusive, I’m saying it could be used in this way.

I would also say, whilst I think OP’s DH’s behaviour/lack of consideration may well/is likely to be damaging to their relationship, her humiliating him in response may also be damaging. Do two wrongs make a right? Does potentially damaging your relationships twice over really help? Personally, I think it probably doesn’t. Doing it to get “revenge” in a relationship isn’t healthy either (again, I don’t think that was OP’s motivation in this case).

I think my point is that if my husband did something like this to “socially shame” me into altering my behaviour (even if I was in the wrong), rather than actually tackling me directly about the problem, I would be angry and hurt. I don’t think it would do much for our relationship. If he approached me and said “you did x which I thought was shitty/unacceptable and upset and/ or hurt me”, I’d more than likely reflect on that, apologise and try to address the behaviour that had caused the issue (being imperfect, I might be a bit defensive at first- none of us like having negatives pointed out). I think he’d do the same for me.

However, if rather than bringing it up with me directly, my DH decided to report chapter and verse of my wrongdoing/failings to all my family and/or friends (or provided picture evidence of my transgressions to them), I think it would make me far less likely to be remorseful (at first, at least)- more likely angry, defensive and hurt in turn. He’d lose some of the “moral high ground” and frankly, I’m not sure how I’d feel about the whole thing. I think I’d be questioning his motives, I think it would damage my trust and might make me question our relationship (especially if repeated). And yes, perhaps my own behaviour would cause similar feelings in my DH- but again, if that is the case then all you have then done is increase the problems twofold. I’m not sure how this is helpful?

I also think my family would be a bit wary of him for a while. They wouldn’t want to be put in the middle of an argument between us. I wouldn’t want my husband’s family to be put in the middle of an argument between us. I don’t they would either. Obviously a situation involving abuse or violence is a different kettle of fish.

I’d also say- if my DH told he’d decided to “socially shame” me into changing my behaviour, I think it might be one of the last disagreements we ever have. He would be able to permanently stop worrying about the behaviour he didn’t like, as I doubt I’d be sticking around for very long.

Op im just sending uou a hug.
And if you need to hide For a few days till he notices, i have space and a spare room.
Trainspotting loo is not ever ok
Not actually taking care of sick kids isnt either.

You have my absolute sympathy

Xxx

Ps.
SIL sounds sympathetic. Accept assistance.
But let him clean up

You are not Being U in any way at all

I don’t think you were unreasonable at all - well done for posting the photos. I’m still aghast at you preparing breakfast for THIRTY FIVE people and clearing up! And this man can’t keep your home reasonably clean and tidy for a few days? Why not show how quickly things go to rack and ruin when you’re not there for a couple of days? God for you, of all things to regret it’s not posting a few pics.
Think I’d be hotfooting it to the holiday let permanently. And I agree with you re cleaner. It just gives yet another woman a horrible job to do while men think it’s ok to shit everywhere because a random woman will have to scrape it off the loo. And it’s always a woman. And I have worked as a cleaner.

I came home from a trip (very long drive) to see family with the DC to find our house filthy - dead flies all over the kitchen floor filthy - and lost my mind! There was lots of laundry in the basket and the same clean laundry I’d washed still hanging up, no food or milk in the fridge etc. I can totally sympathise. Being busy is no excuse for living in squalor. Posting photos is perhaps a bit petty, but I do understand your reasons for doing so. Try and move on and put it behind you - you’ll laugh about it one day. I doubt he’ll do it again.

Someone asked me what family life was like when my children were small. A combination of Little House on the Prairie with Withnail and I. Feel your angst OP. Stick with it, it will improve.