to try and explain why nursery fees are so high

[SunsetCurtain]

I opened a nursery two years ago, in an area that desperately needed one. It was all over the local papers at the time about the local childcare crisis, and families were having to relocate etc. I thought I was doing a nice thing.

Since I've opened, I get weekly - sometimes daily - criticism and occasionally abuse about the "extortionate" fees we charge. I've been called a filthy capitalist, a con-artist and endure many, many comments about "printing money" etc.

I cannot comment IRL, I'm in a closed community that would deliberately misunderstand and I'd get even more flack. So please allow me my vent.

Childcare ratios are as follows:
For every 3 children under 2 years old, we require 1 staff member.
2 - 3 year olds is 4 children to 1 staff.
Over 3s is 8 children to 1 staff.

50% of staff must be qualified at all times - that's a Level 3 childcare diploma or higher, which is typically 2 years of college study. I've done it myself very recently and whilst it isn't "hard", it is extraordinarily detailed, long and - frankly - dull.

I pay our Manager £13.50ph, Deputy £13.00ph and all other staff £12.50ph. Excluding employer's contributions. We pay well for the industry, which is typically minimum wage (£10.42ph) - our salaries are reflective of our less than popular area.

All staff are legally obligated to attend a 2 hour long training session run by the local council 4 times a year, with our SENCO and DSL staff required to attend additional specialised sessions again. It is expected - at a legislative level - that each staff member does an additional 20+ hours of CPD a year.
It is also mandatory to have a monthly staff meeting (so add 1 hour extra per staff member each month), and a monthly supervision meeting per staff member (so 2 hours for Manager + staff member).

We obviously have to pay staff to open the nursery 30 minutes before children arrive, and they stay for roughly 1 hour after children have left to complete paperwork, clean and lay out activities for the following day.

The Manager needs 10+ hours a week on top of the time she spends with children for more paperwork than God himself needs to complete. She only gets away with 10 hours a week because I do the majority of the heavy stuff, for free.

I have calculated, roughly, that for every hour a child is in the nursery - it "costs" us 1.4 hours of labour, when including the above.

A minimum of 2 staff must be on site at all times, meaning that the staffing cost per hour is at a minimum of £35 per childcare hour (taking into consideration the training etc.)

If those 2 staff are taking Under 2s (2 staff = 6 babies) - that brings the cost per baby to £5.83ph
2 - 3 year olds would be £4.38ph
Over 3s would be £2.19ph

This is, of course, assuming that there are the maximum number of children per staff member - which is rarely the case.

This does not include - surplus staff for illness, lunches, outings and annual leave.
Overhead costs such as electricity (for us this is roughly £400 a month in Summer), rent and business rates.

I don't really know what I'm trying to achieve here but honestly, I'm going insane. All I seem to see online is people complaining about the cost of childcare, and I know that it is often directed at the gov, but it's also often directed at Nursery owners and I really don't think people have sat down and looked at the maths.

Setting up this nursery cost £75k, and I was doing it on a tight budget with family doing a lot of the renovation.
I have never drawn a salary, and in fact subsidise it by several thousand a month with a full time job.
(Yes, I'm considering closing it - but I know it will make me even less popular in town).

Rant over. Congrats if you've read all the way though <3

Oh, for reference we charge £7ph for babies, £6.50 for 2-3 years and £6 for Over 3s.

I found out the other day that the local dog daycare charges £6.20ph

Oh jeez. I don’t think anyone doubts how much it costs to run a nursery. And frankly wishes that it could pay better for the workers involved. But the problem is setting normal folks’ salaries against what it costs. And so the problem is total lack of government supplements and supports for such a vital industry.

I am sorry your community is awkward and wish you well.

YANBU. I understand why it's so high. It's very hard on working parents but it isn't the fault of the nursery owners.

Your local doggy day care is outrageously expensive however. My local one is awesome and used to cost 24 a day before covid, it's probably gone up since but we don't need it anymore now that my husband works from home and I've reduced my hours for childcare reasons.

Isn't it mad?!
I researched the hell out of all the ones locally I could find and the cheapest was £5ph and the most expensive £8.40ph!!!

I'm not sure what they do with them over there, but it can't possibly be as much paperwork and regulations as we have to deal with

People expect women to provide free childcare and don’t consider it “work”, so when faced with the true monetary cost they are incredulous and angry.

Don't forget a ratio of 1:13 for 3-4 years olds if the person holds QTS, EYT or EYP status! Not a good idea though IMO .

I get it OP you cannot provide high quality early year's education and childcare without charging a high amount.

until The Government wake up and see that this is the case with early years funding and putting in a proper pay structure for the sector then early year's recruitment, retention and offering high quality provision won't happen!

The sector is on it's knees at the moment and it is only going to get worse without financial intervention.

Don't even get me started on the proposed ratio changes for 2-3 year olds 1:5 it is problematic with a 1:4 ratio as the age group are lovely, but v labour intensive.

It's no wonder qualified, experienced and passionate nursery staff are leaving in droves!

I think you are unusual paying your staff above minimum wage and paying for locking up.
At DDs 2 nurseries they cleaned and locked up whilst the children were there. Children had to follow them about whilst they locked the building. Building was shut at 6pm. Staff would get there just at opening time, only the manager would get there 5 minutes before.
Saying that the owners of one of the nurseries owned a chain and were extremely wealthy and horrible employers. Your way sounds better but there’s a cost.

Despite the ratios bleeding us dry, they cannot be increased.
We need extra staff to do anything other than the basics with the ratios as they are, so you're completely right that changing them would be disastrous.

I am a very confident educator / practitioner, but there's no way I could safely handle 15 3 year olds by myself. It's not only dangerous, but completely removes the possibility of individualised care.

I'm really sorry that you're being personally criticised in your community; that's horrible.

It's the same as residential care for the elderly - people see the total price and think that it's a huge sum, which is true, and therefore assume that it's because they're being ripped off, which doesn't actually follow. Childcare is cheap by the hour, but people need a lot of it. I pay my hairdresser fifteen times as an hourly charge what I pay nursery, but I pay the hairdresser for an hour every eight weeks and I pay nursery for 20 hours a week, which is very light nursery usage.

Doggy day care also costs about the same as nursery around me. It does feel like quite a powerful symbol of inequality that I know both people who can't afford to work because of the cost of childcare and also people happily paying the same fees for a pet.

I understand it’s costly and why the high charges are needed. It’s just it’s so unaffordable for a lot of people. The government need to put more money into it to subsidise the fees.

I'm not sure, I've made many lovely manager friends over these past few years and it's seen as a necessity to have that extra time.

And recruiting is horrifically awful in this industry. So those couple of extra pounds help and I think I'd simply get no applicants otherwise.

It takes time to get that qualification, and there are plenty of min wage jobs with a lot less stress

I've been paying £5 an hour since 2019. They are finally going up to £6 an hour in September but DS will be starting school. I have never understood how they can do what they have done for my DS for that (food is included). It's a family business though - mum, dad and 2 daughters.

I went to DS's nursery tonight for their leavers art exhibition. It was so good, and so creative, and there were photos everywhere of him having the best time. I cried when he'd gone to bed.

How young would you take babies and do you think 12 week olds there all day every day is ethical?

I think it wouldn't be fair of me to cast a judgement as I can imagine many scenarios where a young baby needs out of home childcare

We know why they’re high. Most western governments subsidise the fees, ours is shite.

YANBU at all. I have worked extensively in early years. It is underfunded, undervalued and broken to be honest. I have thought about opening my own nursery and I just can’t work out how I could make it work.

It’s so much cheaper in other countries. So all their governments just subside the sector heavily? Why doesn’t ours?

I used to pay £1900 a month for 2 kids. It was unsustainable and had to give up my job and retrain. What a shame we can’t get this right in our country.

I think most intelligent people realise it’s an issue with government subsidising- I doubt childcare settings in Germany pay their staff €60 a month.
Unfortunately successive governments have all loved adopting the narrative your child your problem- and this is where we end up. And no one cares until they get a bill themselves- same with free school meals, no one cares, no one sees the bigger picture.
I hold no anger with childcare settings but that nursery staff member on min wage May one day need to pay childcare themselves! It’s a messed up system.

Honestly this doesn’t sound like a business. Now you know the costs, put up your rates. We went with the most expensive nursery in our area which newly opened and it’s sort of reassuringly expensive and it’s fully booked within a year of opening. It’s a chain N Club and they’ve hit on that many people value their kids and want quality not cheap

Childcare in this country is so expensive but it’s not the nurseries fault it’s the governments fault. I really feel for you OP.

We lived in France when ours were very small. DD went to crèche a couple of mornings a week our bill at the end of the month was around 1 euro (it varied but most months were less than a euro). We then moved to Germany my children were in Kita 6hrs a day, five days a week and we paid 54 euros a month for their food, that was it.

If other counties can do it why can’t we.

My son’s nursery has stopped offering less than full time (9-5) and in her words it’s worked to cut out the riff raff. She makes no allowances for any parent who wants totally ‘free’ childcare - it’s full time or nothing.

YA so NBU!

It’s ridiculous that there’s no meaningful government subsidy. It’s an investment in the UK workforce, and in the futures of children who attend. A friend runs their nursery as a not for profit and they still struggle to make ends meet.

Our nursery charges £80 a day! Childcare is expensive.

Don't let it get to you.

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

I work for a nonprofit pre school and are constantly making a loss. We have put the fees up to try to start to break but it's not looking good.

Thank you for providing a clearer breakdown OP, I often see people complaining about the cost of nursery's.

Nursery/Pre School workers are very underpaid and undervalued, based on your observations it appears people are willing to pay more for their dogs than they are for the people caring for their children.