to try and explain why nursery fees are so high

[SunsetCurtain]

I opened a nursery two years ago, in an area that desperately needed one. It was all over the local papers at the time about the local childcare crisis, and families were having to relocate etc. I thought I was doing a nice thing.

Since I've opened, I get weekly - sometimes daily - criticism and occasionally abuse about the "extortionate" fees we charge. I've been called a filthy capitalist, a con-artist and endure many, many comments about "printing money" etc.

I cannot comment IRL, I'm in a closed community that would deliberately misunderstand and I'd get even more flack. So please allow me my vent.

Childcare ratios are as follows:
For every 3 children under 2 years old, we require 1 staff member.
2 - 3 year olds is 4 children to 1 staff.
Over 3s is 8 children to 1 staff.

50% of staff must be qualified at all times - that's a Level 3 childcare diploma or higher, which is typically 2 years of college study. I've done it myself very recently and whilst it isn't "hard", it is extraordinarily detailed, long and - frankly - dull.

I pay our Manager £13.50ph, Deputy £13.00ph and all other staff £12.50ph. Excluding employer's contributions. We pay well for the industry, which is typically minimum wage (£10.42ph) - our salaries are reflective of our less than popular area.

All staff are legally obligated to attend a 2 hour long training session run by the local council 4 times a year, with our SENCO and DSL staff required to attend additional specialised sessions again. It is expected - at a legislative level - that each staff member does an additional 20+ hours of CPD a year.
It is also mandatory to have a monthly staff meeting (so add 1 hour extra per staff member each month), and a monthly supervision meeting per staff member (so 2 hours for Manager + staff member).

We obviously have to pay staff to open the nursery 30 minutes before children arrive, and they stay for roughly 1 hour after children have left to complete paperwork, clean and lay out activities for the following day.

The Manager needs 10+ hours a week on top of the time she spends with children for more paperwork than God himself needs to complete. She only gets away with 10 hours a week because I do the majority of the heavy stuff, for free.

I have calculated, roughly, that for every hour a child is in the nursery - it "costs" us 1.4 hours of labour, when including the above.

A minimum of 2 staff must be on site at all times, meaning that the staffing cost per hour is at a minimum of £35 per childcare hour (taking into consideration the training etc.)

If those 2 staff are taking Under 2s (2 staff = 6 babies) - that brings the cost per baby to £5.83ph
2 - 3 year olds would be £4.38ph
Over 3s would be £2.19ph

This is, of course, assuming that there are the maximum number of children per staff member - which is rarely the case.

This does not include - surplus staff for illness, lunches, outings and annual leave.
Overhead costs such as electricity (for us this is roughly £400 a month in Summer), rent and business rates.

I don't really know what I'm trying to achieve here but honestly, I'm going insane. All I seem to see online is people complaining about the cost of childcare, and I know that it is often directed at the gov, but it's also often directed at Nursery owners and I really don't think people have sat down and looked at the maths.

Setting up this nursery cost £75k, and I was doing it on a tight budget with family doing a lot of the renovation.
I have never drawn a salary, and in fact subsidise it by several thousand a month with a full time job.
(Yes, I'm considering closing it - but I know it will make me even less popular in town).

Rant over. Congrats if you've read all the way though <3

Do you mean why are the Australian child care centres so bad?

@Pawpatrolsucks yes

As a taxpayer who's expected to pay for others' childcare, among other benefits, it certainly is my business.

Well, one cannot have it all.

Life is a series of tradeoffs. Sometimes one must make tough choices. It's best when they don't involve expectations that others will pay to fulfill all of one's dreams.

There is no reason that would-be parents can't plan, live frugally and save for childcare costs.

That's a good question, Zelda. I am sorry you received such opprobrium for asking it.

You didn't address Zelda's question.

I agree.

I have often thought of opening up a day centre for the elderly. There is a huge need in my area. However I just can't make the business plan work. I would have to set it up and run it as a charity, reliant on some level of fundraising.

I don't necessarily think all nurseries are capitalist vampires ! I just wish it wasn't so high

I'd hate to be running a business where both the customers and the business owner (and perhaps the staff) are unhappy.

I prefer being in a business where custom is optional and the clients and owner agree freely to the service and the price.

About 5 years a go I was paying about 20k a year for one two year old to go to nursery (London) and I’m reliably informed that it’s about 25k now even at the not for profit places. I suppose the difference must be rent or mortgage of the premises because presumably staffing costs anywhere in the U.K., food costs, energy bills etc all must be roughly the same. It’s A LOT.

I did.
Maybe the expenses are more than they budgets, or circumstances change. TTC can take a long time.
Either way if the base of future taxpayers is eroded (i.e having less children) it's us who will suffer.
Birth rates are already plummeting...more and more people just don't bother with children.

This is a really interesting thread. I would just like to throw in the mix that as a local authority Foster carer I recieve £23.00 per day for a a baby and that is for 24 hours. And out of that I have to buy everything they need: milk, nappies, clothes etc. Also that can be for a drug withdrawing/poorly baby and we have to do multiple contact runs and meetings...

That is a disgraceful amount for looking after a vulnerable, traumatised baby. No wonder there is a shortage of foster carers!

"Birth rates are plummeting..."

What a pathetic excuse. There is zero shortage of human beings and never will be!

They do, but that leads to societal consequences that aren't great - particularly, women leaving the workforce which has a long-term impact on both them and tax revenues. It also widens the gap between children from more and less advantaged backgrounds if some of them get formal preschool education and some of them don't. Which is why most governments subsidise childcare.

You could say the same about school, that it should be paid for by parents rather than general taxation and that people should just plan for that. No one does say that though because the societal consequences would be so obviously disastrous.

Absolutely. I manage a nursery and, whilst the owner makes a comfortable living, she is far from raking it in. Particularly in the baby room, we only 'break even' due to the ratio. The rise in minimum wage has hit small businesses hard and unfortunately this has to be passed on to the customers. We actually charge less than most of our competitors in our town.

Honestly I think a lot of people think their own time is worth much more than the people who look after their children. They wouldn't work for low wages themselves but they expect people involved in childcare to do so

That's an interesting point to which I would add that they not only expect other people to look after their children for low wages, but they also want other people to pay for someone to look after their children.

@SunsetCurtain
I’m a bit confused by your references to ‘governing body’. Are you associated with a school? Your earlier posts suggested that this was private provision.

I suggest that you wind down the under-twos provision (as the current children age out) and take children from the working day after their second birthday. This will reduce costs, reduce complexity and reduce the higher risks associated with under twos.

That will also mean that the families who choose you do so actively over the other setting, which will probably only take children from the term after their second birthday, due to when any two-year-old free entitlement funding kicks in (for eligible families).

Combine this with a positive PR campaign about what you offer. Make it clear that you prioritise welfare for children, staff and families.

This.

Your business is not viable.

Yes there is.

@TomorrowToday
Australian child care centres have much higher child to carer ratio. Before the recent changes it was like Lord of the flies with lots of kids stuffed into small rooms.

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune Everyone is responsible for paying tax that will benefit children because we will all benefit from the tax they pay when we are older.